Hamilton switch... burnt out !

sythai · Mar 17, 2023

Hi Guys

After bit of advice please....

Called back to kitchen job today, Hamilton light switch we fitted has burnt out?!
Normally decent gear so just trying to make sure nothing we have done (as Client not so friendly on this one.)

Switch in question is powering all the feature lighting which consists of:

4x75watt (240watts being used) & 1x40watt (30watts being used)/ 24v drivers running various LED cabinet lights.

Trying to check back spec of drivers can only find data sheet for 100watt version so be less than this:
Input 1.2amps so well under 10amp rating of switch and even before that it's on own 6a rcbo (new db installed) which would trip if overloaded.
But on spec sheet has inrush current <15amps, could this be causing the prob ? Not something I'm so familiar with being honest.

Hoping it's just the switch

Thanks Sy

DPG · Mar 17, 2023

Any photos? Has it burnt out around the switch mechanism, or around the terminals?

sythai · Mar 17, 2023

DPG said:
Any photos? Has it burnt out around the switch mechanism, or around the terminals?

melted point on side - terminals blackened also, but cable were still in there tight.

LukeD · Mar 17, 2023

I would remove the yellow cover .Would give more detail . Never had ONE issue with hamiltons .Very nice gear

littlespark · Mar 17, 2023

Is it just me or does the C and E marking look very close together?

Dodgy copies???

Not saying it is, but maybe worth a check.

Edit.

Added photo.

This is what I’ve got to hand… oral B electric toothbrush. CE mark looks to have a space between.

sythai · Mar 17, 2023

LukeD said:
I would remove the yellow cover .Would give more detail . Never had ONE issue with hamiltons .Very nice gear

same here.. decent stuff used for yonks !

I'm going to send back as less than 12months old and was bespoke item cost £25.
so don't really want to pull part and not be able to get back together... if you know what I mean.

sythai · Mar 17, 2023

littlespark said:
Is it just me or does the C and E marking look very close together?

Dodgy copies???

Not saying it is, but maybe worth a check.

Wouldn't be on this one I hope!
I got bespoke quote done up myself direct with Hamilton then got through my local wholesalers

LukeD · Mar 17, 2023

littlespark said:
Is it just me or does the C and E marking look very close together?

Dodgy copies???

Not saying it is, but maybe worth a check.

Edit.

Added photo.

This is what I’ve got to hand… oral B electric toothbrush. CE mark looks to have a space between.

View attachment 106887

hamiltons have both CE markings (narrow and apart) spread across their range .

Rockingit · Mar 18, 2023

I'd be very surprised if an instantaneous theoretical 15A inrush would cause that amount of damage - has it failed open or closed? There must be hundreds of thousands of 10A switches interrupting LED drivers up and down the land without issue, why should this one be any different?

I would be sending it back to Hamiltons for an inspection under warranty to see what they have to say.

sythai · Mar 18, 2023

Rockingit said:
I'd be very surprised if an instantaneous theoretical 15A inrush would cause that amount of damage - has it failed open or closed? There must be hundreds of thousands of 10A switches interrupting LED drivers up and down the land without issue, why should this one be any different?

I would be sending it back to Hamiltons for an inspection under warranty to see what they have to say.

failed open.... it's going back to Hamilton, see what the outcome is

Lucien Nunes · Mar 18, 2023

The melted plastic alongside the switch mechanism, suggests that the heat came from the contacts, not the wiring terminals. High resistance or arcing could be caused by lack of pressure e.g. something mechanically broken, jammed or dirty, or faulty manufacture of the contacts themselves. I agree it's not likely to be caused directly by inrush, only by the continuous load. Excessive inrush can cause contact wear and damage and in time lead to failure, but not immediately. The switch is rated 10AX which means it doesn't need derating for inductive fluorescent / discharge lamp loads. LED drivers are not inductive so it's not directly comparable but it does mean the contacts are designed with inrush durability in mind.

Re. the CE mark, that is not the correct form and I too would be put on guard by a product from a reputable manufacturer with an incorrect marking. If the C is made into a complete circle it should just overlay the nearest side of the E. Non-standard marks like this have sometimes been used on non-compliant products and passed off as a different 'China Export' mark which is a scam.

sythai · Mar 18, 2023

Lucien Nunes said:
The melted plastic alongside the switch mechanism, suggests that the heat came from the contacts, not the wiring terminals. High resistance or arcing could be caused by lack of pressure e.g. something mechanically broken, jammed or dirty, or faulty manufacture of the contacts themselves. I agree it's not likely to be caused directly by inrush, only by the continuous load. Excessive inrush can cause contact wear and damage and in time lead to failure, but not immediately. The switch is rated 10AX which means it doesn't need derating for inductive fluorescent / discharge lamp loads. LED drivers are not inductive so it's not directly comparable but it does mean the contacts are designed with inrush durability in mind.

Re. the CE mark, that is not the correct form and I too would be put on guard by a product from a reputable manufacturer with an incorrect marking. If the C is made into a complete circle it should just overlay the nearest side of the E. Non-standard marks like this have sometimes been used on non-compliant products and passed off as a different 'China Export' mark which is a scam.

Thanks Lucien very helpful and informative of you

sythai · Mar 18, 2023

Got couple more Hamilton here (dodgy one on LHS) to compare CE......

LukeD · Mar 18, 2023

Hamilton LED Dimmer Module LEDIT-B100 - Lowest Price Online | Click4Electrics

Hamilton LED Dimmer Module LEDIT-B100, Hamilton Litestat has launched a new 2-Way LED dimmer, designed to be compatible with a wider range of mains dimmable lamp and luminaire brands. We are the cheapest online, many in stock. Buy Today!

www.click4electrics.co.uk

Hamilton GRID-IT 400W 2 Way Push On/Off Dimmer Module | UKES

Buy this 400W 2 Way Push On/Off Dimmer Module from Hamilton Litestat's GRID-IT collection. Find the whole range here at UK Electrical Supplies.

www.ukelectricalsupplies.com

Both types shown

littlespark · Mar 18, 2023

Found this page.

Counterfeit CE Marking | CE Accredited Fabrications | Safety Fab

Counterfeit CE Marking - How to Spot it - Our products are CE Accredited Fabrications to ensure the quality and safety of each product we supply and make.

www.safetyfabrications.co.uk

There is also a Uk gov page that links out to a European site, but doesn’t show both CE marks

DPG · Mar 18, 2023

Wouldn't be at all surprised if they were counterfeit. You'd be surprised how much counterfeit stuff gets into 'proper' supply chains. Its not just ebay and amazon.

LukeD · Mar 18, 2023

DPG said:
Wouldn't be at all surprised if they were counterfeit. You'd be surprised how much counterfeit stuff gets into 'proper' supply chains. Its not just ebay and amazon.

Virgin Records know all about that ! trading standards once claimed up to 30% of their vinyl and CD's where fake .Not Virgins fault directly , just cheating suppliers !

Lucien Nunes · Mar 18, 2023

Good spot @LukeD (post 14), first unit has proper CE mark, second one dubious. Of course it could just be that their subcontractor doesn't have the right artwork and the dimmer is completely genuine, but I wouldn't be letting that out on one of our products because I would hope that savvy customers would question its authenticity. I've seen quite a few dodgy misshapen or mirror-image kitemarks on counterfeit and unapproved moulded plugs and cord sets, that the casual user would take to be an approval.

DPG · Mar 18, 2023

LukeD said:
Virgin Records know all about that ! trading standards once claimed up to 30% of their vinyl and CD's where fake .Not Virgins fault directly , just cheating suppliers !

Good example. I saw an interesting documentary a few years ago which showed how counterfeit Ford spares actually got into the smaller Ford dealerships. They weren't even aware.

LukeD · Mar 18, 2023

DPG said:
Good example. I saw an interesting documentary a few years ago which showed how counterfeit Ford spares actually got into the smaller Ford dealerships. They weren't even aware.

lets not discuss the NHS and pharmacists with fake drugs .. they have lost Millions

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