Discuss 18th edition question in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

chris day

London Sparks
Messages
370
Location
london
Not been on the 18th edition course yet.

In short what are the design changes I will need to implement come jan 1st on a domestic re-wire?
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
Not been on the 18th edition course yet.

In short what are the design changes I will need to implement come jan 1st on a domestic re-wire?
Insignificant ...
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking

Fitzy

Newly Qualified Sparky
Electrician's Arms
Messages
202
Location
Redhill
Watch the videos by John Ward and SparkyNinja who explain all the changes in the 18th edition.

Never experienced fallen cables that hindered me in a house fire, nor the melting of plastic rawl plugs causing items to fall.
 

Ian1981

Forum Mentor
Messages
2,969
Location
North east
SPD’s except where the total value of the installation and equipment therein doesn’t justify such protection.

Clear as mud:)
 

wirepuller

Forum Mentor
Messages
5,528
Location
south uk
Insignificant ...
521.10.202 is a very significant change which will require consideration to achieve compliance. I predict there will be an awful lot of non-compliant new builds and extensions during 2019, because many will just carry on as they always have.
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
521.10.202 is a very significant change which will require consideration to achieve compliance. I predict there will be an awful lot of non-compliant new builds and extensions during 2019, because many will just carry on as they always have.
Hum ......... so in a finished domestic premises how would anyone know or check this?

Serious question BTW

Little is done now to check any existing BS 7671 compliance - so why focus in on this?
 

telectrix

Scouser and Proud.
Respected Member
Messages
60,293
Location
cheshire/staffordshire
521.10.202 is a very significant change which will require consideration to achieve compliance. I predict there will be an awful lot of non-compliant new builds and extensions during 2019, because many will just carry on as they always have.
being a tight fist, i not got 18th book.can you paste that reg?
 

Ian1981

Forum Mentor
Messages
2,969
Location
North east
There’s not many instances where a new build would be effected by this other than if trunking is used to house the cables to the DB or any detached garages with surface conduit drops for accessories inside.
 

wirepuller

Forum Mentor
Messages
5,528
Location
south uk
Hum ......... so in a finished domestic premises how would anyone know or check this?

Serious question BTW

Little is done now to check any existing BS 7671 compliance - so why focus in on this?
Are you suggesting you will ignore this regulation?

being a tight fist, i not got 18th book.can you paste that reg?
521.10.202
Wiring systems shall be supported such that they will not be liable to premature collapse in the event of a fire.

This is a blanket requirement, no distinction is given to areas of wiring or type of installation. I have been informed that a plasterboard ceiling is not considered to provide support for cables in the event of a fire, and that all wiring throughout its length will require support with (for example) steel straps, unless it is drawn through joist holes.
This will have implications for rewires where cables are often fished through areas where floors are difficult or impractical to lift for access.
 

Spoon

Forum Mentor
Messages
7,166
Location
Lancashire
I have been informed that a plasterboard ceiling is not considered to provide support for cables in the event of a fire, and that all wiring throughout its length will require support with (for example) steel straps, unless it is drawn through joist holes
The plasterboard comment is interesting... Who informed you of this?
 

Spoon

Forum Mentor
Messages
7,166
Location
Lancashire
There’s not many instances where a new build would be effected by this other than if trunking is used to house the cables to the DB or any detached garages with surface conduit drops for accessories inside.
Plastic trunking is not the issue here as it will melt in the fire. The idea is to stop entanglement of firefighters with the copper cables within the trunking.
 

wirepuller

Forum Mentor
Messages
5,528
Location
south uk
The plasterboard comment is interesting... Who informed you of this?
Currently doing the 18th and this came from the tutor when we dissected the implication of the regulation. Got an NIC visit next month so will run it by him as well. But knowing how the IET interpret things it would not surprise me that plasterboard alone as a support would not meet the requirements
 

netblindpaul

Forum Mentor
Messages
1,977
Location
South Wales
Plasterboard has a 30 minute fire rating from building regulations.
Check the Electrcial Safety First website to see if the questions of plastic plugs has been addressed in the faq section.
 

wirepuller

Forum Mentor
Messages
5,528
Location
south uk
Plasterboard has a 30 minute fire rating from building regulations.
Check the Electrcial Safety First website to see if the questions of plastic plugs has been addressed in the faq section.
The fire rating of plasterboard was raised during the discussion, but this was not considered to meet the requirement for supporting wiring systems
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
If this is so important, why is the reg in the BBB lacking vital information ?

And no I’m not suggesting anybody ignores it .... just that inspections on completed properties will make this almost impossible to verify ....
 

Archy Styrigg

Forum Mentor
Messages
8,635
Location
Manchester
Are you suggesting you will ignore this regulation?


521.10.202
Wiring systems shall be supported such that they will not be liable to premature collapse in the event of a fire.

This is a blanket requirement, no distinction is given to areas of wiring or type of installation. I have been informed that a plasterboard ceiling is not considered to provide support for cables in the event of a fire, and that all wiring throughout its length will require support with (for example) steel straps, unless it is drawn through joist holes.
This will have implications for rewires where cables are often fished through areas where floors are difficult or impractical to lift for access.
Does that now over-rule a previous/current reg that cables could be laid, horizontally, unsupported in an inaccessible void?
 

wirepuller

Forum Mentor
Messages
5,528
Location
south uk
If this is so important, why is the reg in the BBB lacking vital information ?
How much vital information do you want? The regulation is very clear as far as I can see. Wiring systems must be installed to stay put and not collapse in the event of a fire. That clearly means they must be supported by fire resistant fixings to the structure of the building
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
The fire rating of plasterboard was raised during the discussion, but this was not considered to meet the requirement for supporting wiring systems
What colour plasterboard was being discussed? Grey or pink ?
 

Ian1981

Forum Mentor
Messages
2,969
Location
North east
Are you suggesting you will ignore this regulation?


521.10.202
Wiring systems shall be supported such that they will not be liable to premature collapse in the event of a fire.

This is a blanket requirement, no distinction is given to areas of wiring or type of installation. I have been informed that a plasterboard ceiling is not considered to provide support for cables in the event of a fire, and that all wiring throughout its length will require support with (for example) steel straps, unless it is drawn through joist holes.
This will have implications for rewires where cables are often fished through areas where floors are difficult or impractical to lift for access.
Of course the plasterboard gives fire protection, upto 30 mins.
If it didn’t then we would have to regard the regulation regarding escape routes to domestic new builds currently to the 17th edition and provide metallic support above the plaster board ceiling in hallways and all the exits which is completely unnecessary.
Never been pulled off an Niceic assessment on this.
 

Ian1981

Forum Mentor
Messages
2,969
Location
North east
Plastic trunking is not the issue here as it will melt in the fire. The idea is to stop entanglement of firefighters with the copper cables within the trunking.
Hence my comment that the cables housed in the trunking will need metallic support against collapse
 

Murdoch

Regular EF Member
Messages
25,126
Location
Woking
How much vital information do you want? The regulation is very clear as far as I can see. Wiring systems must be installed to stay put and not collapse in the event of a fire. That clearly means they must be supported by fire resistant fixings to the structure of the building
with the greatest respect the BBB is vague in detail.....

If the IET considers plasterboard insufficient the BBB should clearly state this

As usual, a poorly written regulation open to interpretation .....

Being given 1 possible interpretation by a course tutor is complete tosh imho
 

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