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Hi,
I have been testing a domestic property today and when i started to look into the kitchen sockets there is a 4mm radial from the DB going to one socket on one side, the 4mm radial is cut into and JB'd and 2x2.5mm cables run out forming a ring for the other 4 sockets...

Does this obey regs? I know you can run 2.5mm spurs off 4mm but havent seen or heard of this before?
 

Pete999

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Hi,
I have been testing a domestic property today and when i started to look into the kitchen sockets there is a 4mm radial from the DB going to one socket on one side, the 4mm radial is cut into and JB'd and 2x2.5mm cables run out forming a ring for the other 4 sockets...

Does this obey regs? I know you can run 2.5mm spurs off 4mm but havent seen or heard of this before?
A lollipop circuit then, don't like em but don't think they are against the Regs, or so I have heard on this Forum from time to time.
 

Baddegg

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Lollipop circuit Chris...
 
Just confuses things,why would you do that.
 

Pete999

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Possibly an RFC remote from the DB?
Instead of running 2 x 2.5 mm^2 in parallel, run a single 4mm^2.
Thought he was talking about the song.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
A lollipop circuit hahah,
learn something new every day!
thanks for the replies
 

Pete999

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A lollipop circuit hahah,
learn something new every day!
thanks for the replies
Well that's what this type of circuit are called, apparently.
 
Personally I would call it lazy. Never installed one and probably wouldn't. But come across a few of them.
 

Pete999

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Hi,
I have been testing a domestic property today and when i started to look into the kitchen sockets there is a 4mm radial from the DB going to one socket on one side, the 4mm radial is cut into and JB'd and 2x2.5mm cables run out forming a ring for the other 4 sockets...

Does this obey regs? I know you can run 2.5mm spurs off 4mm but havent seen or heard of this before?
One would think if you do what you suggest you would need to reduce the size of the OCPD at or near the change of cable size, wouldn't you????
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
One would think if you do what you suggest you would need to reduce the size of the OCPD at or near the change of cable size, wouldn't you????
Are you talking about a 2.5mm spur off a 4mm radial? It is compliant if you only have 1 socket outlet as they are rated 13a so if any higher load was placed on the cable the socket would fail.
 

pirate

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Is it simply a case of "get some power in there, 4mm will do it...then get some sockets off that, 2.5 rfc will do?"
I ask this as a complete novice, but I can see some logic in such a lollipop arrangement...
However, I have no clear idea what circuit protection would be appropriate, given I have no idea what the final load might be...
maybe one level at the CU, and another at the junction with the rfc?
Or maybe just assume that the final load will never be enough to cause a fire?
Hmmm...
think I need to get an electrician in!
 
It’s something you would of done,with the old boys,back in the day,but not now “Surely” & stop calling me Shirley.
 

littlespark

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Whether a 4mm radial, or a 2.5 rfc from source, it would still be generally a 32A OCPD.
I just think it over complicates matters and makes it more confusing for the next spark to work on the circuit.
It shouldn't be done, but its compliant, so hey.
 

ipf

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It’s something you would of done,with the old boys,back in the day,but not now “Surely” & stop calling me Shirley.
Seem to come across it a lot more these days than in the 'old days', Miss Bassey.
 

pirate

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If it's compliant, why shouldn't it be done? Again, I ask as a novice.

It's a bit like laying a watering hose system in a garden. Send the big hose in, then split it into a ring through smaller pipes. Obviously the water won't kill you!
 
If it's compliant, why shouldn't it be done? Again, I ask as a novice.

It's a bit like laying a watering hose system in a garden. Send the big hose in, then split it into a ring through smaller pipes. Obviously the water won't kill you!
Technically nothing wrong with it. No different than your meter tails or other sub distribution.
However it may cause problems or confusion for the next guy who comes to test or make alterations.
 
Nines times out of ten its generally an old perhaps cooker circuit that has been adapted as a ring circuit.
Cant imagine anyone would deliberately install a hybrid (or lollipop) circuit.
If only the kitchen as per OP may have just carried on as a 4mm radial!
 

spark 68

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In domestic it tends to be done when only the kitchen is refurbed, usually repurposing the 6mm^ feed that was formerly used for the electric cooker circuit , save ripping the rest of the house apart.

In Industrial/commercial it may be done for volt drop/max Zs reasons using a larger feeder cable and to save what may be just a 'local' RFC from needing two long runs back to a DB.

It is compliant btw, and in the OP it is more likely a 6mm^ as said above
 

ChrisElectrical88

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Seen it a few times in factorys. 6mm from dist board down to adaptable box then 4 or 5 sockets on a ring from this point. Saves running 2 cables down the main trunking run i guess.
 
Also seen it in schools 6 mm to 45 amp switch on dado trunking and 2.5 mm ring wire from switch .as others have said also seen it in kitchen refits using the cooker circuit
 

spark 68

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Just for further information regarding Testing/certifying 'lollipop' circuits here is Voltimums take on it.

Common issues relating to hybrid ring/radial final circuits - https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/common-issues-relating-hybrid
 
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