2-way swtiching question

[nieldm]

I suspect the outcome of this will be "call a professional" and if so that's fine (and I will ask for a recommendation in EC London...) but I would like to understand what's going on with my wiring in any case.

It's a "simple" 2 way switching situation for the hallway light, one switch by the front door, which is wired per the first photo (the black and blue are actually joined, I just took the photo as I was removing the switch to remind myself of the positions) and the second by the stairs. There are two problems. 1 - there is no power to the stairway switch until the switch by the door is on and 2 - when I turn the switch by the door on, it takes about 4 seconds for the lights to come on.

The wiring at the first switch is below. I am really struggling to work out which wires are doing what here. One of the red wires is permanently live, the other red goes to the other switch. The yellow is permanently live (so not the switched live as I initially thought). The blue also goes to the other switch which seems to indicate that the black is the switched live.



The second switch is a different beast, actually part of a "smart home" setup but there is nothing "smart" in terms of how it works as a switch. It's wiring diagram is here:


In the backbox here I have a red (cable tester tells me it's from the other switch) a yellow (perm live) and a blue (from the other switch). The problems (1 and 2) above occur when it's wired with the yellow in "L" and the red in "Dimmed Live". The blue is currently in the middle connector. When the other switch is on, this switch works fine, turning on and off as expected, but the two certainly aren't working together in a two-way fashion. How it is working when it's patently wrongly wired (the red carries power from the other switch, so effectively I have two permanent lives connected) is a mystery to me.

Once you all stop laughing, can anyone tell me whether there is anything "bleedin obvious" that I can do myself to sort this out or do I need to put the kettle on to make tea for a professional?

Marc

 

[telectrix]

difficult to tell remotely.a spark on site should have it sussed in half an hour, even if it meand dumping the smart switch and replacing with a sensible on/off.

 

[nieldm]

difficult to tell remotely.a spark on site should have it sussed in half an hour, even if it meand dumping the smart switch and replacing with a sensible on/off.

I do get the concern about that switch, but they are pretty bulletproof and all the "smart" functionality doesn't have anything to do with it's functionality as a simple switch. I agree that proving it out with a regular switch would be a sensible start though.

It's been ages since I used an electrician around here, all the work was done as part of a renovation a couple of years ago and I didn't have direct contact with the electrician. Are there any recommendations for a good one in EC1? Happy to receive PMs.....

 

[littlespark]

First thing I would suggest is swap out the smart switch and get it working with a regular switch.
Secondly, the cables need to be identified 100%... as mentioned, an electrician could do it in minutes.

the problem with some smart switches (not all) is that the remote signal is extra low voltage. The remote switch has to be the same brand as the master. Sending 230v into the smart switch could fry it.

 

[Intoelectrics]

The switch in the picture looks like an intermediate.

 

[davesparks]

The wiring diagram you have posted suggests that it needs to switch at the other end of the 2 way to be a retractive switch instead of a normal 2 way switch

 

[nieldm]

The wiring diagram you have posted suggests that it needs to switch at the other end of the 2 way to be a retractive switch instead of a normal 2 way switch

Thank you, but I am not sure what a retractive switch is!

I think I will solve the problem a different way as I am pretty sure the switch by the door and the "smart" one aren't compatible, the latter needs a switched live (ie it's not a proper two way, it just works with a remote switch per the diagram. I can put the smart switch by the door and in the other box put the battery powered one they sell that looks the same but simply controls the other switch wirelessly. I have done this before somewhere else and apart from the cost of the wireless remote version, it works well. I was hoping to be able to combine traditional and new in a ballet of technology, but it doesn't seem to be so simple....

 

[davesparks]

Thank you, but I am not sure what a retractive switch is!

I think I will solve the problem a different way as I am pretty sure the switch by the door and the "smart" one aren't compatible, the latter needs a switched live (ie it's not a proper two way, it just works with a remote switch per the diagram.

A retractive switch is a momentary switch, it makes contact when you press it and then it springs back to its off position.

This can easily be achieved with the wiring you have slightly adjusted and a retractive switch in place of the existing 2 way switch

 

[nieldm]

A retractive switch is a momentary switch, it makes contact when you press it and then it springs back to its off position.

This can easily be achieved with the wiring you have slightly adjusted and a retractive switch in place of the existing 2 way switch

This sounds interesting. Could I trouble you for an example of the sort of thing you product you think might work? I know Varilight make good products, but their range is pretty impenetrable for the uninitiated....