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Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response. Is that for the city and guilds exam as some places seem to do the EAL one which doesnt cover the same sections as far as I can see. The codebreakers is really useful as you mentioned though appears to take a slightly harder line than other examples in GN3 and the other guide I have but I dont think you have to be 100% in line with them as long as your judgement is on the safe side if I'm right.
That would be the c&g which I think stands in better regard generally, but both are acceptable.

There are some which must be right, and are clear, (exposed conductors - if you don't give this C1, it isn't acceptable for example), but yes there is a whole range of possibilities in between the obvious extremes. As long as you justify it well it will be ok, provided its reasonable, I know a few occasions where the assessor thought C2, the candidate C3, and visa versa, in all cases the candidate passed that section (there are others where a clearly incorrect code was given, they didn't pass).

Obviously it appears best to err on the safe side, but this isn't necessarily true, they try to avoid the concept of going in somewhere and over coding, as it looks like a rip off style thing (eg good practice is this ___, therefore although nothing is technically wrong, you need to replace --- etc) they are after a balanced view, so too critical/over safe is not a good thing.
 
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Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful response. Is that for the city and guilds exam as some places seem to do the EAL one which doesnt cover the same sections as far as I can see. The codebreakers is really useful as you mentioned though appears to take a slightly harder line than other examples in GN3 and the other guide I have but I dont think you have to be 100% in line with them as long as your judgement is on the safe side if I'm right.

I did the C&G and the pictures bit as harder than you think, one picture I think I had to do 3 times, I found lots of issues and the assessor agreed with all of them but it was not the answer they were looking for. Its not to bad if you know how to test and what the results should be etc.

Where people fell apart on mine was the practical testing. I went in after two guys, one walked out after 40mins after breaking down, and the other ran out of time. I was bricking it after that but just get your head down, there is not loads of time but there is plenty of time, there are a few faults in the rig but just do all your tests and you will find them. Think mine was a high resistance on a bonding cable, no continuity of cpc on a circuit and a lot IR reading, they want to see that you can do a global IR testing and make sure to remove the leads on any rcbo's. I think the people that failed just had no done enough testing, you need to be able to do testing confidently.
 
That would be the c&g which I think stands in better regard generally, but both are acceptable.

There are some which must be right, and are clear, (exposed conductors - if you don't give this C1, it isn't acceptable for example), but yes there is a whole range of possibilities in between the obvious extremes. As long as you justify it well it will be ok, provided its reasonable, I know a few occasions where the assessor thought C2, the candidate C3, and visa versa, in all cases the candidate passed that section (there are others where a clearly incorrect code was given, they didn't pass).

Obviously it appears best to err on the safe side, but this isn't necessarily true, they try to avoid the concept of going in somewhere and over coding, as it looks like a rip off style thing (eg good practice is this ___, therefore although nothing is technically wrong, you need to replace --- etc) they are after a balanced view, so too critical/over safe is not a good thing.
Really useful comments again. Nice to know about it first hand. It does seem that c and g marking requires specific responses at times so I'm hoping to be able get that right. More reading required to prepare over the next few days...
 
Really useful comments again. Nice to know about it first hand. It does seem that c and g marking requires specific responses at times so I'm hoping to be able get that right. More reading required to prepare over the next few days...
It's not difficult at all, it's a clear principle they want to achieve, identify dangers and code appropriately, but not take the rip-off view of calling everything faulty.

The part most people fail is the testing/reporting.

If you are competent at testing and finding faults its very easy, it will be a three phase dol starter/contactor, a pyro radial, a feed to a second single phase board, a couple of lighting circuits and a rfc.

You must isolate correctly, then test and complete the schedules properly, along the way you will find a few faults.

After that you must complete the eic and eicr - usually the eic is for the single phase dist board or a circuit of one of the boards, everything else will be the eicr.

Common failures are:
Not isolating correctly (not proving tester before or after using it, not doing all 10 tests to prove 3 phase dead, not doing ph-ph first - earth last, or failure to secure keys to lockout etc)

Not finding faults (often its forgetting the bonding tests, or leaving earth in place, but it could be any number of open circuit faults in any of the phases in any circuit, a common error is not finding a neutral-earth fault - there are lots of possibilities)

Not testing properly (ir testing line/neutral to earth - but with the earth still disconnected, missing r1+r2 test or otherwise forgetting some aspect such as the ze or zs or fault levels.)

Not completing the eicr and eic correctly ( missing bits off - often because you ran out of time, or filling in the wrong part - there are two instances of 30mA rcd protection - getting these mixed up! Failure to identify the correct reg for the faults , or indicating to the assessor that these must be fixed before the eic is done - showing a C2 code for example on an eic!)

If you are competent, you will pass easily any day of the week.

You will struggle if you don't really understand what you are doing in terms of testing.
 
It's not difficult at all, it's a clear principle they want to achieve, identify dangers and code appropriately, but not take the rip-off view of calling everything faulty.

The part most people fail is the testing/reporting.

If you are competent at testing and finding faults its very easy, it will be a three phase dol starter/contactor, a pyro radial, a feed to a second single phase board, a couple of lighting circuits and a rfc.

You must isolate correctly, then test and complete the schedules properly, along the way you will find a few faults.

After that you must complete the eic and eicr - usually the eic is for the single phase dist board or a circuit of one of the boards, everything else will be the eicr.

Common failures are:
Not isolating correctly (not proving tester before or after using it, not doing all 10 tests to prove 3 phase dead, not doing ph-ph first - earth last, or failure to secure keys to lockout etc)

Not finding faults (often its forgetting the bonding tests, or leaving earth in place, but it could be any number of open circuit faults in any of the phases in any circuit, a common error is not finding a neutral-earth fault - there are lots of possibilities)

Not testing properly (ir testing line/neutral to earth - but with the earth still disconnected, missing r1+r2 test or otherwise forgetting some aspect such as the ze or zs or fault levels.)

Not completing the eicr and eic correctly ( missing bits off - often because you ran out of time, or filling in the wrong part - there are two instances of 30mA rcd protection - getting these mixed up! Failure to identify the correct reg for the faults , or indicating to the assessor that these must be fixed before the eic is done - showing a C2 code for example on an eic!)

If you are competent, you will pass easily any day of the week.

You will struggle if you don't really understand what you are doing in terms of testing.
It's just the bits I cant practise beforehand that worry me more. Looking at faults in reality isnt the same as looking at a picture that I've heard arent that recent or good quality so any help with that section is welcome.
 
It's just the bits I cant practise beforehand that worry me more. Looking at faults in reality isnt the same as looking at a picture that I've heard arent that recent or good quality so any help with that section is welcome.
But they can't be recent, as that wouldn't be a test!

As for quality, no picture is the same as looking at the item, but they do take that into account.
 
It's just the bits I cant practise beforehand that worry me more. Looking at faults in reality isnt the same as looking at a picture that I've heard arent that recent or good quality so any help with that section is welcome.
The pictures aren’t great quality and they’re not recent but the faults are all pretty obvious things like gaping holes in the top of CU’s, missing blanks with visible busbars or exposed single insulation outside of enclosures.

As long as you correctly identify the C1’s, obvious C2’s and don’t fail something that’s compliant you’ll be ok. If you get those the rest of the process is effectively a conversation with the examiner about your choices and why you’ve given something a C2 or C3. The examiner isn’t looking to trip you up, they just want to make sure you understand the regs and aren’t taking a blind stab in the dark.
 
Just adding a thanks to everyone who gave me tips. I passed the 2391-52 today and just got to wait for the certificates sending. For the picture section I made my own resource based on a YouTube video by sparky ninja and a few others so I could get used to linking the photos and codes which really helped. Other than that the rest was based on slogging away revising Bs7671 and using gn3 and the osg along with actually testing boards. Cheers for the help!
 
Just adding a thanks to everyone who gave me tips. I passed the 2391-52 today and just got to wait for the certificates sending. For the picture section I made my own resource based on a YouTube video by sparky ninja and a few others so I could get used to linking the photos and codes which really helped. Other than that the rest was based on slogging away revising Bs7671 and using gn3 and the osg along with actually testing boards. Cheers for the help!
Congrats matey
 
Well done, if you can test and know the principles it's no problem, it sounded like you knew what you were doing from your posts.
Thanks. There was such a range of activities over the exam I just needed to get my head round all the parts
 
Just adding a thanks to everyone who gave me tips. I passed the 2391-52 today and just got to wait for the certificates sending. For the picture section I made my own resource based on a YouTube video by sparky ninja and a few others so I could get used to linking the photos and codes which really helped. Other than that the rest was based on slogging away revising Bs7671 and using gn3 and the osg along with actually testing boards. Cheers for the help!
Are you able to share links to the YouTube videos and other useful resources you have? I have my exams in few weeks and trying to practice and revise much as possible to build my competency.

thank you in advance.
 
Are you able to share links to the YouTube videos and other useful resources you have? I have my exams in few weeks and trying to practice and revise much as possible to build my competency.

thank you in advance.
Hi,
Ive attached the word doc I put together for Task A coding pictures. It includes a credit to the youtube video I used and I did a rough framework of the exam answer sheet (with a made up answer on) to get used to the style of it. For this section I noticed that city and guilds seem to take a light touch when it comes to coding so if you use the Napit codebreakers they tend to be harsher so bear that in mind
 

Attachments

  • coding pictures.docx
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