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Discuss 2391 is it really fair? in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Ionicreds

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Hello all, first and foremost I believe an introduction is in order, names ionic and glad to have come across this forum, I'm sure I'll have a very interesting time here. Before I can really continue with this post I have to ask would it be ok for me to recall a couple of quetions from my recently sat 2391 exam, don't want to break any rules, I think I've done fairly well but another 35 days befor I get the results, can't help but feel though the exam in some parts was a bit unfair.
 
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welcome to the forum, and I can't see any problem with you raising what the questions are on here, why did you think it was unfair?
 
O

Octopus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Welcome to the real world.

The "standard" of the 2391 has not been dumbed down, unlike the majority of exams these days, and as a result requires a high level of knowledge, combined with a high level of perdantic need for the correct terminology.

The numbers of people passing the 2391 has not increased over time, as a percentage.
 
Well, considerring that 2301 is a CnG level three and compare the exam with 2377 which is level three as well but multiple choice exam which you really can't fail, I am afraid I have to agree: no it is not fair. 2391 is possible the hardest exam to pass and in my opinion a bit undervalued.
 
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MarkieSparkie

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  • #5
Hi, welcome to the forum.
 
surely the design exam is the toughest one to pass
 
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Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
surely the design exam is the toughest one to pass
nope , design exam you are allowed to take books in , 2391 no books , everything from memory.
30-35% pass rate for inspection exam says it all
 
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mickys86

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
There's a reason why my Boss says if He's looking to employ someone the only qualification he's scrolling down the list for is the 2391
 

widdler

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Mentor
Arms
To the OP, I have the paper sat last week in front of me. Let us know where you thought it was unfair and we can discuss..
 
I

Ionicreds

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
To the OP, I have the paper sat last week in front of me. Let us know where you thought it was unfair and we can discuss..
Thanks for ur responses, just to clarify its only some questions that I thought was unfair but with the high failure rate that could be the difference between passing or failing, there is one question in particular that sticks out to me and it concerns volt drop, I can do cable calcs pretty easy and working out volt drop by calculation is second nature to me, the quetion was how do you measure volt drop on an installed circuit and with what instrument, 3 marks I think, now guidance note 3 says its impractical to measure volt drop after the circuit has been installed because it would involve taking a measurement at the source and at the point of utilisation simultaneously,while under load. I for one can't find an explanation on how to do it. I'm not saying there isn't one, unless that was the answer lol. another question was what part of the supply can't be measured? Now that one really did blow my mind. You spend a lot of time studying, so now your at a level were you can name every test in the book backwards if need be, expected results ect. I spent about 10 minits trying to come up with an answer that has no real relevance. why do I have to worry about something I will never do? needless to say i think i got that wrong. There was a question about D.N.O can't recall it but I'd never heard of D.N.O untill that point before. I'm under the impression they throw these type of questions in to put you of your stride, that being said I'm quietly confident I'm going to pass it but only time will tell, but I can't help but feel some questions are a little off the beaten track.
 
I have my 2391 and have had for a while so if the employers regard it as a top qualification it's about time they started paying a little bit more money to us after all we have paid for this exam are selves
 
O

Octopus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
To the OP, I have the paper sat last week in front of me. Let us know where you thought it was unfair and we can discuss..
Can I have a copy please??
 
I

Ionicreds

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Toyed to post,post has gone to the mods.
 
Can I have a copy please??
same would put me out my misery
 
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chelwood

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Could i have a copy of the exam please
 
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robsparky1975

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
The 2391 was intended to be difficult,to make sure that whoever passed and practised inspection & testing was competent to do so and i hope that they do not dull down this qual with multi choice papers,its better for all that hold this that it remains that way,as for being on par with the 2377 thats just laughable,if there was a level 4 or 5 ots where it should be.
 
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gesl

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
I've recently done the 2395 (havent got the results yet) and like everyone else spent ages doing old 2391 papers getting miserable about the terminologly having to be spot on and trying to decipher cryptic questions. I've attended countless training sessions and sat plenty of exams but I'm sure that this exam is the only one that is'nt a stamped on pass before you sit it. As hard as it is, the standard has to be maintained, pass or fail.
 
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SirKit Breaker

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
It has to be difficult. Once you have passed it, you will be giving your expert opinion of the overall condition of an installation, as well as giving unbiased accurate information for the rectification and / or improvements to an installation if it needs work carrying out. If you don't have a full understanding (to expert level) of Inspection and Test, how can you be expected to make informed decisions and recommendations.

Cheers.............Howard
 
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Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
It has to be difficult. Once you have passed it, you will be giving your expert opinion of the overall condition of an installation, as well as giving unbiased accurate information for the rectification and / or improvements to an installation if it needs work carrying out. If you don't have a full understanding (to expert level) of Inspection and Test, how can you be expected to make informed decisions and recommendations.

Cheers.............Howard
Agreed , yet unfortunatley even Electrical Trainee are being groomed to pass the exams with little or no experience , as shown by the thread on the training section under the heading of " my route to being a qualified spark" or something similar.
It should be made compulsary to have 5 years experience before being allowed to do the 2391 in my opinion.
 
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Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
And as the holder of the 2391 cert done way back in '97 , i'm secretly glad its being replaced by the 2394 / 5 as it means the accomplishment of passing the 2391 cant be watered or dumbed down to meet todays expectations of the everyone must pass outlook to education.
 
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SPARTYKUS

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Wept when my pass cert came through the post.

Not kidding!
 
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Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
Wept when my pass cert came through the post.

Not kidding!
I know ! lol
it was a moment matched only by getting m jib gold card.
 
Agreed , yet unfortunatley even Electrical Trainee are being groomed to pass the exams with little or no experience , as shown by the thread on the training section under the heading of " my route to being a qualified spark" or something similar.
It should be made compulsary to have 5 years experience before being allowed to do the 2391 in my opinion.
Agree, they say its not watered down but it seems as easy to get as an asbo now, everyone has one and as you say even people that have not done any form of correct formal training so jury is out on how expert people will be on doing an electrical inspection.
IMO 2391 is much like the olympic ticket, everybody wants one and if you pay enough you have one.
 
S

SirKit Breaker

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
i phoned up to get my result, i sat in dumb silence trying to take it in when they said PASS! When the cert arrived, i sat staring at it for ages to make sure it was mine.
 
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Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
Agree, they say its not watered down but it seems as easy to get as an asbo now, everyone has one and as you say even people that have not done any form of correct formal training so jury is out on how expert people will be on doing an electrical inspection.
IMO 2391 is much like the olympic ticket, everybody wants one and if you pay enough you have one.
And i've got a suspision as to why that is ;
it seems to me that these training centres spend most of the 2391 course going over past papers rather than actually teaching testing principles , which is why people with little / no experience can pass.
Yet how would they fare if they were asked to do a PIR on a 3 storey hotel with 40 year old wiring with no circuits labelled ? ;-)
 

DaveyD

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Arms
And i've got a suspision as to why that is ;
it seems to me that these training centres spend most of the 2391 course going over past papers rather than actually teaching testing principles , which is why people with little / no experience can pass.
Yet how would they fare if they were asked to do a PIR on a 3 storey hotel with 40 year old wiring with no circuits labelled ? ;-)
Collage is the same as - don't kid yourself. I spent three days doing old papers
 
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Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
i phoned up to get my result, i sat in dumb silence trying to take it in when they said PASS! When the cert arrived, i sat staring at it for ages to make sure it was mine.
I didnt know if i'd passed till the results came through the post , made the moment all the sweeter lol.
 
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Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
Collage is the same as - don't kid yourself. I spent three days doing old papers
My 2391 tutor spent half a day on past papers , the other 4 and half were spend learning.
Clearly bums on seats and revenue is the name of the game sadly
 
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