24v Fire Alarm Needs to Switch 240v shut off valve/Solenoid

[robbo777]

Hi

we have just installed a new gas system in our warehouse and it has a safety shut off valve/solenoid on it.

Basically the solenoid is 240v and I need the fire alarm to shut it off when activated, does anyone know of piece of kit that switches by 24v and operates 240v.

Many Thanks

 

[Engineer54]

Hi

we have just installed a new gas system in our warehouse and it has a safety shut off valve/solenoid on it.

Basically the solenoid is 240v and I need the fire alarm to shut it off when activated, does anyone know of piece of kit that switches by 24v and operates 240v.

Many Thanks

Yeah, ...It's called wiring through a relay!!!

 

[robbo777]

Yeah, ...It's called wiring through a relay!!!

yeah i gathered that but not having fitted one before I need to know of a make/manufacture that I can contact and get one, do you have a manufacturer or model of one that will do the job please?

 

[Spoon]

What size is the solenoid? What is the output from the fire alarm?

 

[grantr37]

Hi we have just installed a new gas system in our warehouse and it has a safety shut off valve/solenoid on it. Basically the solenoid is 240v and I need the fire alarm to shut it off when activated, does anyone know of piece of kit that switches by 24v and operates 240v. Many Thanks

Here's what you are looking for... Products I think a lot of Electricians get quite annoyed on here when individuals join and message just a few times looking for information and tips or "tricks of the trade" then don't even click the thanks button before disappearing only to resurface a year later looking for more Trade information to save on the costs associated with hiring the services of a tradesman and do a "DIY" especially when it involves Industrial locations and uses...a lot of the time the person responding may spend a number of hours making telephone calls or reading up Data sheets etc and may not even get a response from the original enquirer after posting a solution.... this is why sometimes apparently rude or unhelpful comments may appear...

 

[robbo777]

Here's what you are looking for... Products I think a lot of Electricians get quite annoyed on here when individuals join and message just a few times looking for information and tips or "tricks of the trade" then don't even click the thanks button before disappearing only to resurface a year later looking for more Trade information to save on the costs associated with hiring the services of a tradesman and do a "DIY" especially when it involves Industrial locations and uses...a lot of the time the person responding may spend a number of hours making telephone calls or reading up Data sheets etc and may not even get a response from the original enquirer after posting a solution.... this is why sometimes apparently rude or unhelpful comments may appear...

I can appreciate this and I appreciate the help that I receive on here but just to let you know that I am a fully qualified electrician and have been in the trade on and off for the last 20 years and I only need help occasionally when I get jobs that I know nothing about like this, I also thank the people that do help with the answer to the question that I ask and am fully appreciative of the time it takes for them to get the answer to me.
So thank you for taking the time to find me the answer.

 

[telectrix]

doesn't the fire panel have a volt free relay specifically for this purpose? e.g. to release door magnets etc.

 

[Sintra]

Hi

we have just installed a new gas system in our warehouse and it has a safety shut off valve/solenoid on it.

Basically the solenoid is 240v and I need the fire alarm to shut it off when activated, does anyone know of piece of kit that switches by 24v and operates 240v.

Many Thanks

You may need to fit an interface to the FA system in the proximity of the solenoid valve. This will give you a set of NO / NC contacts to break the solenoid supply through.

Are there any other measures fitted to isolate the solenoid eg emergency gas shut offs etc.

 

[robbo777]

doesn't the fire panel have a volt free relay specifically for this purpose? e.g. to release door magnets etc.

I have no idea about this as I have no idea about the fire alarm panel, Basically I was talking to the guys who installed the fire alarm and they have a relay next to the gas shut off valve that operates when the fire alarm goes off but the output from the relay is only 24v, when I asked them how to connect this to the shut off valve all I got was "its not my problem mate" and "its not my job to connect someone else's equipment to the alarm"

 

[Toonlad]

just ask them to swap the interface at the gas shut off for a 230v one, then your more than half way there.

But having said that they say its not there job , they need to prove cause and effect, so its in there best interests to have a bit input into making sure it interfaces correctly. How can they have done the demo to the client and fire officer and issued certs if it hasnt shut the gas off.

Best stop now starting to go off on a tangent now, need to calm down, too much drink in me lol.

GLHF

 

[MDJ]

As engineer54 mentioned a relay is the way, very straight forward, you want a 240 volt relay with a 24 volt dc coil, when the bells ring the relay coil is energised and the supply to the gas valve is broken, how you energise the coil is a matter of a couple of ways, via an alarm relay in the panel or by a sounder itself, the latter not so good as you may need a diode doing it this way to ensure the panel doesnt go into fault.

 

[Sintra]

I have no idea about this as I have no idea about the fire alarm panel, Basically I was talking to the guys who installed the fire alarm and they have a relay next to the gas shut off valve that operates when the fire alarm goes off but the output from the relay is only 24v, when I asked them how to connect this to the shut off valve all I got was "its not my problem mate" and "its not my job to connect someone else's equipment to the alarm"

The interface fitted will be fine as it will be the relay coil that is operated by the 24V from the FA panel. The switching contacts will be volt free and will more than likely be 10A rated. Use the C & NC terminals to break the solenoid supply.

 

[robbo777]

You may need to fit an interface to the FA system in the proximity of the solenoid valve. This will give you a set of NO / NC contacts to break the solenoid supply through.

Are there any other measures fitted to isolate the solenoid eg emergency gas shut offs etc.

At the moment all I have is the emergency gas shut off valve which I have energised through the means of a FCU (TEMPORARY) until I figure out the correct way of connecting it through the fire alarm.

There will be an Estop next to the valve once configured correctly

The interface that you talk of is what I am looking for, I'm thinking this should be simple once I find the correct piece of hardware to go between the two, just need a make and model, I have tried the link suggested above but can't get on their website.

I'm in work tomorrow so i'll get some photos of the exact setup and post on here

 

[MDJ]

no need to complecate it though bud, a relay is a very very easy way to get the job done and used a hell of a lot for this type of circuit control regarding gas valves.

 

[robbo777]

The interface fitted will be fine as it will be the relay coil that is operated by the 24V from the FA panel. The switching contacts will be volt free and will more than likely be 10A rated. Use the C & NC terminals to break the solenoid supply.

This is what I am looking for, would you be able to direct me to a link that shows this please so I can get one ordered, many thanks

 

[Sintra]

This is what I am looking for, would you be able to direct me to a link that shows this please so I can get one ordered, many thanks

Right ok what have the FA guys fitted that you are talking about in post #9 if it's not an interface.

 

[robbo777]

what about this? looks like it'd do the job
774-306 PNOZ/X2.1/24V - PILZ - RELAY, SAFETY, 2NO, 24VAC/DC | Farnell United Kingdom

 

[Sintra]

what about this? looks like it'd do the job
774-306 PNOZ/X2.1/24V - PILZ - RELAY, SAFETY, 2NO, 24VAC/DC | Farnell United Kingdom

Just another pointer mate all cabling on a FA system has to be monitored for OC SC etc. using a non specific part can sometimes prove difficult.

You still haven't clarified what the FA guys fitted beside your solenoid.

 

[robbo777]

Just another pointer mate all cabling on a FA system has to be monitored for OC SC etc. using a non specific part can sometimes prove difficult.

You still haven't clarified what the FA guys fitted beside your solenoid.

I'll post some photos up tomorrow of exactly what is there, they didn't fit the solenoid the gas men did, the FA guys have just brought their cable next to it which comes from a 24v relay box

 

[Sintra]

Ok post pics as that is all you should need. The solenoid might even have an auxiliary connection. Please take pics of all parts of the puzzle and we will get you sorted.