UK 3 phase domestic supply

[pc1966]

In London, I was quoted 12k by UKPN for a straight 10m run from the pavement to our front door. That didn’t include any ground works on our side. Go figure.

Not that surprised.

Openreach, based on figures I heard mentioned, charges something like £120/m for putting in fibre on hard (tarmac, etc) surfaces, down to something like £35/m for soft ground. That really adds up!
[automerge]1599763495[/automerge]
Doh! I read that as 100m, so yikes that REALLY adds up!

 

[DPG]

The long days in Scotland ensure the sun shines for longer when it is stronger. Even on overcast days they still produce electricity.

I think he was intending that to be humorous.

 

[John-SJW]

A good video on the new Tesla Powerwall types of batteries. I think we can expect new homes to be built with solar tiles and Powerwall batteries, with EV chargers. Sparks will need to get up to speed with this technology.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdo_DIJJxWA&pp=wgIECgIIAQ%3D%3D

 

[Zerax]

The sun shines on all roofs. It is a no-brainer to have solar tiles.

Yes... agreed... IF you're a multi-millionaire who's hobby is shouting about how 'green' you are.

For everyone else, small scale domestic PV panels/tiles are still uneconomic... it's far far cheaper to buy your electricity from the grid.
[automerge]1599825504[/automerge]

You may be all be involved in wiring up these solar roofs. Hopefully soon. Looks good.

No... we won't.

You'd have to have 2 main things happen first...

1) Small scale domestic PV systems need to be economic... I.e. costs go down, or grid sourced electricity goes up. My best guess is we're maybe 15-20 years away from this.
2) The whole MCS system needs to change to allow it as an economic option for small companies. No sign of this ever happening... it anything it'll just get worse.

Just a word of advise... don't believe everything that Bobby Llewellyn says... he's a fanatic who is highly selective of his facts and deliberately avoids anything that detracts from his personal point of view.

 

[John-SJW]

View: https://youtu.be/jB6jyy0Joq8

I gave this earlier in the thread. Looks very affordable to me. The concrete solar tiles are 50% extra for a roof - that will diminish over time.

Domestic PV systems are dropping like a stone. See the Tony Seba vid I posted, and grid electricity will go up for sure.

People forget that the UK converted the whole of the country from town gas to natural gas in about 10 years. From discovering gas in the North Sea in 1965 to finality. That is the gas pipes to the shore, the receiving stations, the new cross country pipelines, the gas regulating equipment, the decommissioning of the many town gas plants, new meter equipment, all appliances converted to take the new gas. Converting for EVs will be child's play in comparison.

Costs of solar PV has dropped like a stone, and still dropping



I don't need the advice of someone who has viewed anything new as some sort of lies.

 

[Zerax]

Domestic PV systems are dropping like a stone. See the Tony Seba vid I posted, and grid electricity will go up for sure.

John... without Feed In Tariffs... in the UK right now... PV panel systems simply do not make any economic sense. If you're a multi-millionaire with a hobby of 'eco' systems... they are perfect !

According to the Greenmatch website (I just did a very very quick search and it was top of the list)... a 4kW PV system costs between £6k and £8k to install... and after 25 years might give you savings of £9.24k.... How does that make any economic sense ??

Suppose instead, I'd invested my £6k to £8k... after 25 years that would be worth about £24k !

So... tricky decision to make... it's a close call... Spend say £7k now and get back £9k in 25 years... or £24k in 25 years... I can't decide John... what would you do ??

 

[UNG]

View: https://youtu.be/jB6jyy0Joq8

I gave this earlier in the thread. Looks very affordable to me. The concrete solar tiles are 50% extra for a roof - that will diminish over time.

Domestic PV systems are dropping like a stone. See the Tony Seba vid I posted, and grid electricity will go up for sure.

People forget that the UK converted the whole of the country from town gas to natural gas in about 10 years. From discovering gas in the North Sea in 1965 to finality. That is the gas pipes to the shore, the receiving stations, the new cross country pipelines, the gas regulating equipment, the decommissioning of the many town gas plants, new meter equipment, all appliances converted to take the new gas. Converting for EVs will be child's play in comparison.

Costs of solar PV has dropped like a stone, and still dropping

View attachment 60747

I don't need the advice of someone who has viewed anything new as some sort of lies.

You really really need to analyse facts and not be misled by social influencers and their rhetoric
You seem to totally ignore what has caused the decline in PV prices in recent years and it is quite easy to answer. The feed in tariff to some extent distorted the market, as it came to an end the demand for panels dropped through the floor and as with any markets supply and demand influences the final price, it remains to be seen if an upturn in demand causes price rises
Not really the no brainer you are trying to push

John... without Feed In Tariffs... in the UK right now... PV panel systems simply do not make any economic sense. If you're a multi-millionaire with a hobby of 'eco' systems... they are perfect !

According to the Greenmatch website (I just did a very very quick search and it was top of the list)... a 4kW PV system costs between £6k and £8k to install... and after 25 years might give you savings of £9.24k.... How does that make any economic sense ??

Suppose instead, I'd invested my £6k to £8k... after 25 years that would be worth about £24k !

So... tricky decision to make... it's a close call... Spend say £7k now and get back £9k in 25 years... or £24k in 25 years... I can't decide John... what would you do ??

I suppose the return has to be tempered by the potential cost of electricity over the next 25 years and it is anybody's guess what that is likely to be as the demand profile changes

 

[pc1966]

It has always been about the economics.

A year ago I looked at deploying solar panels on our site but without the subsidies it simply did not make financial sense. Yes, you get as many answers are sites you look at but I was basing it on this which puts the pay-back time at 25+ years:

Solar panels – are they worth it?

Solar panels can pay out £1,000s. Money Saving Expert looks at whether you should get free solar panels or pay to have them installed.

www.moneysavingexpert.com

Now that may well vary and probably the pay-back period will drop as electricity prices will probably go up over these sort long periods. But for now I guess may folk would save more by investing in energy-efficient appliances or thermal insulation.

The wider ecological impact is harder to know. Obviously saving fossil fuel use by contributing PV power helps, but I don't know quite how much it alters the UK grid's emissions, nor do I know the environmental impact of PV manufacturing / end of life disposal.

 

[John-SJW]

I posted a vid on new concrete solar tiles. They cost now, 50% more than fitting a new roof, no doubt they will get cheaper as production increases. If building a new house, or having to relay a roof, they are worth considering for sure.

None of you had heard of these tiles. I would have expected someone to write that this a good idea, interesting, should go far, will improve, or whatever. Instead only negative Luddite remarks came back.

It appears all the vids and links I have given have been lies to some here. One vid I posted gave the figures of a home battery which proved economically they are worth it for families. If you need to relay your roof, then solar tiles will make even more economic sense - you only have to lay the solar tiles on the south side.

The trend towards home batteries and EVs is there for all to see. Some just stop short of writing that it is not happening. I read one Spark on this forum saying all his work is fitting EV chargers. Wise up. Open your eyes. Take the blinkers off. It is amazing reading the nay sayers, humorous as well.

 

[DPG]

I posted a vid on new concrete solar tiles. They cost now, 50% more than fitting a new roof, no doubt they will get cheaper as production increases. If building a new house, or having to relay a roof, they are worth considering for sure.

None of you had heard of these tiles. I would have expected someone to write that this a good idea, interesting, should go far, will improve, or whatever. Instead only negative Luddite remarks came back.

It appears all the vids and links I have given have been lies to some here. One vid I posted gave the figures of a home battery which proved economically they are worth it for families. If you need to relay your roof, then solar tiles will make even more economic sense - you only have to lay the solar tiles on the south side.

The trend towards home batteries and EVs is there for all to see. Some just stop short of writing that it is not happening. I read one Spark on this forum saying all his work is fitting EV chargers. Wise up. Open your eyes. Take the blinkers off. It is amazing reading the nay sayers, humorous as well.

My word John you're hard work. Nobody is saying they haven't heard of these things, or that they aren't a good idea. But you need to look at the pay back times, etc for retro fitted solutions. See both sides of the argument.

I agree, on new-build I think builders should be fitting them at build time, which is obviously a lot cheaper. But that's BUILDERS you need to convince, not electricians.

 

[Zerax]

None of you had heard of these tiles. I would have expected someone to write that this a good idea, interesting, should go far, will improve, or whatever. Instead only negative Luddite remarks came back.

Firstly, I object strongly to being called a luddite. I trust you'll withdraw that comment.

Secondly, I probably know more about solar tiles than you do ! They are of course a great idea... but NOT now and NOT in the UK ! As I've said before... the current cost of any solar solution makes no economic sense without FITs. Of course, this may change in the future, that's why I said 'current'.

Believe it or not, there are some people (I assume wealthy ones or maybe just ignorant) that are happy to totally ignore the economics and go with the lovely, soft, fluffy idea of using PV.
[automerge]1599904709[/automerge]

My word John you're hard work. Nobody is saying they haven't heard of these things, or that they aren't a good idea. But you need to look at the pay back times, etc for retro fitted solutions. See both sides of the argument.

I agree, on new-build I think builders should be fitting them at build time, which is obviously a lot cheaper. But that's BUILDERS you need to convince, not electricians.

I agree... catching these things at the new-build stage is definitely the way to go... but to me it's all down to what the building regs say. The companies who build the vast housing estates slowly covering the whole of the country, proudly state that they build all their homes to the standard required within the building regs. So it's these that need to change.

There's a small estate opposite me that just being finished... they've installed gas boilers !! No provision for car charging either... but neither the building regs nor local council require it.
[automerge]1599905303[/automerge]

One vid I posted gave the figures of a home battery which proved economically they are worth it for families.

John... I use 3,750 kWh of electricity a year, which I buy from the grid for about £550. (and soon to be nearer £400 when I switch to Octopus Agile)

Please explain how the purchase of say a Tesla Powerwall at about £7,000 will be economic.

But you'll need to put it in terms suitable for a luddite.

 

[John-SJW]

My word John you're hard work. Nobody is saying they haven't heard of these things, or that they aren't a good idea. But you need to look at the pay back times, etc for retro fitted solutions. See both sides of the argument.

I agree, on new-build I think builders should be fitting them at build time, which is obviously a lot cheaper. But that's BUILDERS you need to convince, not electricians.

I am pointing out trends of new technology that clearly indicate that these technologies will be with us, and in many cases sooner than we think. Then just negative, not objective, comments come back. I am amazed at the negative attitude.

As I pointed out, Sparks will be involved in wiring these up no matter who decides to install these solar roofs. It looks involved with solar tiles as they have quite high voltages.

The cost of HS2 would retrofit PV panels in 14 million homes, giving us a dispersed power station. But that is in BoJo's hands.

 

[UNG]

I posted a vid on new concrete solar tiles. They cost now, 50% more than fitting a NEW ROOF, no doubt they will get cheaper as production increases. If building a new house, or having to relay a roof, they are worth considering for sure.

How often does a property need a NEW ROOF, the roof on my current property has been there for 21 years and probably last at least another 30 or more years. What would you say is the environmental impact of ripping off a perfectly serviceable roof and replacing it with solar tiles, do you have a video for that?

None of you had heard of these tiles. I would have expected someone to write that this a good idea, interesting, should go far, will improve, or whatever. Instead only negative Luddite remarks came back.

Why is it you choose to constantly insult people with your blinkered intelligence backed up with dubious YouTube content. The electrical industry has many publications and periodicals that cover the wide ranging subject of all things electrical so to suggest you are bringing us new news is quite the opposite

It appears all the vids and links I have given have been lies to some here. One vid I posted gave the figures of a home battery which proved economically they are worth it for families. If you need to relay your roof, then solar tiles will make even more economic sense - you only have to lay the solar tiles on the south side.

The Fully Charged video showing the Tesla Powerwall while quick to show the potential savings and totally neglected the payback time on the initial installation cost
The video ended up proving nothing as it was based on the first three months since installation which happened to be summer months do you have a link to the Not So Fully Charged video including the winter months to give a more balanced view of the savings. Currently I save a lot on my electricity bills during the summer months as I don't need to turn on my lights for as long and the heating isn't being run all done without solar PV and a Powerwall isn't that amazing

The trend towards home batteries and EVs is there for all to see. Some just stop short of writing that it is not happening. I read one Spark on this forum saying all his work is fitting EV chargers. Wise up. Open your eyes. Take the blinkers off. It is amazing reading the nay sayers, humorous as well.

Looking at the video mentions a 1000 installations of Powerwall and that is a trend, really!!!
One spark where all his work is fitting EV chargers shows how big the market isn't. There have been many trends and new markets to chase over the years and very few are still around today some made good money at the time and plenty got there fingers burnt
It is you that needs to wake up and smell the coffee and post some content that proves the point you are trying to make you are trying to sell something to trade professionals who you are choosing to denigrate yet they have far more knowledge of the industry than you clearly have.
To sell something like many others I need to present a case to the customer that what I am selling is giving value for money so it doesn't come back and bite me on the derrière in the future whether that be a customer complaint or the loss of the customers future business or even litigation because the "ECO dream" I sold them didn't materialise.
Show me and the other members on here viable, legitimate and balanced facts to support your crusade, up to now your videos have not sold it to me and quite a few other members on here, not because we are blinkered or luddites but because we are seeing beyond the smoke and mirrors of the comedic content you have posted to date in this thread

 

[KennyKen]

The Red herring is the “SJW” in his username.

 

[UNG]

The cost of HS2 would retrofit PV panels in 14 million homes, giving us a dispersed power station. But that is in BoJo's hands.

As nobody including HMG knows what HS2 will cost this is really another one of your pointless facts

 

[John-SJW]

As nobody including HMG knows what HS2 will cost this is really another one of your pointless facts

£107 bn for HS2. The funfact point was clear, we could have a dispersed power station or two, reducing people's bills, with Sparks involved of course, instead of a needless railway. However I doubt BoJo would be so philanthropical.

 

[DPG]

£107 bn for HS2. The funfact point was clear, we could have a dispersed power station or two, reducing people's bills, with Sparks involved of course, instead of a needless railway. However I doubt BoJo would be so philanthropical.

Needless in your opinion. Many experts say otherwise. But again, you will no doubt only listen to the side you have decided is correct.

 

[John-SJW]

For those still interested in the progress of EVs, Forbes state:
Tesla’s $25,000 Electric Car Means Game Over For Gas And Oil

Tesla’s $25,000 Electric Car Means Game Over For Gas And Oil

Tesla's announcement of a $25,000 car in the next 3 years would mean you could buy a mass-market premium EV for the same price as a regular VW Golf. So why would you purchase the fossil fuel vehicle anymore?

www.forbes.com

A friend of mine was converting a garage into a room. The customer said would he run a heavy cable from the CU to a sealed box at the side of the garage, for when a charger needs to be installed. He ran a cooker cable. This is going to be big work.