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mll247

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Hi All,

Not sure I'm in the right place, but I'm looking for help/advice on what I think is an electrical problem.

We recently remodeled our kitchen, which included many new wiring runs. In addition, a new electrical panel was installed.

After all the work was completed and we settled into the new kitchen, our Keurig coffee maker (#1) stopped working. Being an older model, we assumed it had reached end-of-life, so we bought a new Keurig, K-Duo (#2).

Within a few days, the new Keurig stopped working too. It was plugged into the same outlet as the previous Keurig. We called Keurig, they stated it was an electrical, non-fixable issue, and sent a replacement. In the process they upgraded us to the K-Duo Plus (#3).

Within a few days with the new K-Duo Plus (#3) also stopped working. Here again, same outlet as the previous two coffee makers and same symptoms. Another call to Keurig, a new replacement was sent, the K-Duo Plus (#4).

For #4, we tried a different outlet in the kitchen (different electrical run) - worked fine for 2 weeks. Moved to a different outlet (different electrical run) - worked fine for 2 weeks. Moved back to the original area (different outlet, same run as previous 3 coffee makers) - and it failed in less than a day.

At this point, with 4 coffee makers failing in the same area/run - I contacted the electrician. He took a few minutes to check the outlets, then stated everything is fine and it's not the wiring. He did mention he tapped into an existing run for the run in question, but basically blames the coffee makers.

With 4 coffee makers failing (and 3 of them being different models), it doesn't seem logical that all the coffee makers were bad.

Any advice here? Any other ideas or troubleshooting that we should try?

Sincerely,
Mike
 
Tapping into an existing circuit to extend it isn't necessarily a problem depending how it's done.

Give the history, a few minutes isn't long enough to test and inspect the kitchen circuits. The electrician should have removed all the outlets/sockets on the suspect circuits to visually inspect for loose or overheated connections and check all connections for tightness. He should have visually inspected the source of the circuits in the main electrical panel and also test for tightness. He also should have live and dead tested the circuits and stated the results on his job sheet/invoice.

On the flip side it would also have been better if Keurig or their supplier had given you some technical info on how all the machines failed.

It's a fairly common problem where a supplier will blame the electrical supply and the electrician will blame the appliance. In order to break this cycle you need to get the supplier to give evidence as to why they point fingers towards the supply and get the electrician to do a full visual inspection and give evidence in the form of test results to prove it isn't.
 
I think @Marvo is right, this needs a thorough investigation before anyone can say that there is no problem.

You are right to be highly suspicious of the supply to some outlets, 3 appliance failures due to manufacturing faults in quick succession is not impossible but certainly very rare.

I suggest that you get a different electrician involved, one that has had nothing to do with any previous work.
He/she can look at the installation with a fresh and unbiased mind.
 
Tapping into an existing circuit to extend it isn't necessarily a problem depending how it's done.

Give the history, a few minutes isn't long enough to test and inspect the kitchen circuits. The electrician should have removed all the outlets/sockets on the suspect circuits to visually inspect for loose or overheated connections and check all connections for tightness. He should have visually inspected the source of the circuits in the main electrical panel and also test for tightness. He also should have live and dead tested the circuits and stated the results on his job sheet/invoice.

On the flip side it would also have been better if Keurig or their supplier had given you some technical info on how all the machines failed.

It's a fairly common problem where a supplier will blame the electrical supply and the electrician will blame the appliance. In order to break this cycle you need to get the supplier to give evidence as to why they point fingers towards the supply and get the electrician to do a full visual inspection and give evidence in the form of test results to prove it isn't.


Thank you Marvo for the advice! I tried calling Keurig for more info and unfortunately the support person answering didn't have the technical details. This gives me a few more things to talk with the electrician about.
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I think @Marvo is right, this needs a thorough investigation before anyone can say that there is no problem.

You are right to be highly suspicious of the supply to some outlets, 3 appliance failures due to manufacturing faults in quick succession is not impossible but certainly very rare.

I suggest that you get a different electrician involved, one that has had nothing to do with any previous work.
He/she can look at the installation with a fresh and unbiased mind.


Hello James, thank you for the info! From you and Marvo both, I appreciate the validation. The electrician is coming back today - if I don't have any luck, I'll do what you suggest and get another electrician involved.
 
Good luck with the electrician, let us know how it goes.

More on the Keurig coffee maker issue... The electrician came back and did a closer inspection but did not find any issues.

Since that time, two more K-Duo Plus coffee makers failed. One in the original trouble circuit, but now one failed on a different circuit.

Calling back to Keurig, I pressed for more info into the issue. On this call, they asked the age of the house. It is an older house, 40 years old, but I stated we have new mostly new wiring throughout the kitchen and a new electrical panel. They immediately recommended a different model. They stated they had similar issues with new houses and new wiring. I asked for more specifics and all they offered was "it has something to do with arc faults".

They wouldn't offer a refund, or at least not willingly/easily. However, they did offer an upgrade to a commercial maker. Not wanting to go down a road of escalations, waiting for call-backs, and more time on the phone, we elected for the new maker, Keurig K150.

I did find a YouTube video that talked about the same issue. Here too, the solution was to switch to a different coffee maker.

How could new wiring, new circuit breakers, or new gfci outlets make a difference? Doesn't sound like anything can be done? For now, we'll see how the new model works.

Thanks again to those who have offered your time, expertise, and ideas.
 
This is a thoroughly puzzling situation.
I would have thought an older, tired electrical system would cause problems with arc faults.

so you have now, how many coffee machines? You on eBay?

I know literally nothing, but with so many machine failures my money was on a wiring issue.

I'd love to know the ins and outs of what causes this and am stunned that a well known manufacturer of electrical goods can churn out products that aren't compatible with accepted wiring practices.
 
Thanks for the follow up even if it maks us no wiser.

If the sparky came back a second time and he knew there had been multiple failures I'd like to think he did a thorough test and proper inspection this time so I'd be more inclined now to suspect there are possibly inherent issues with that particular model of coffee machine.

Credit where it's due, I've never heard of a supplier that has replaced an item so many times and so readily under warranty. Fingers crossed that the different model gives you many years of good service.
 
Any new products , I blame materials ... and that Chinesium Ingredient. Cheaper alt supplies-often found /factory reject pile.
... Has more negative effects than Fairy Dust.

(I'm from an era when things were engineered to last 10 years --not 2 yr)

... ebay is often a place where unreliable bargains are sold in bulk...
 
(I'm from an era when things were engineered to last 10 years --not 2 yr)

i'm older. things used to last that well they were passed down from father to son. ( i still use my dad's jack plane and a few other tools that i inherited. sadly though i binned the hotpoint empress as 'er indoors wanted one with a dryer. it's got a mangle i told her. what more do you want?)
 
Talk about things lasting... I’ve got a broom that was handed down from my grandfather. Only had 3 new handles and 4 replacement heads.
They don’t make em like that any more. ;)
 
Talk about things lasting... I’ve got a broom that was handed down from my grandfather. Only had 3 new handles and 4 replacement heads.
They don’t make em like that any more. ;)
OK. Trigger. Whoa boy.
 
(I'm from an era when things were engineered to last 10 years --not 2 yr)

i'm older. things used to last that well they were passed down from father to son. ( i still use my dad's jack plane and a few other tools that i inherited. sadly though i binned the hotpoint empress as 'er indoors wanted one with a dryer. it's got a mangle i told her. what more do you want?)
Careful Tel, if you spoil her once she'll expect it all the time.
 

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