OP
trev
I've just asked ofsted about it Axel. Well done for the heads up
Discuss A reminder to everyone - FatallyFlawed - Child Plug Socket Covers Campaign in the Industrial Electricians' Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net
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OP
CLB
Have emailed Ofsted too. I didn't know that schools & nurseries are required to have these things in place! Unbelievable.
OP
trev
Ofsted just (kind of) replied. They have passed my email on to the early years development section who will respond as a matter of urgency
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Ofsted: A reminder to everyone - FatallyFlawed - Child Plug Socket Covers Campaign
I have communicated with Ofsted on this many times, no one there has ever admitted that it was ever Ofsted policy to demand socket covers, but there is no doubt that many individual Ofsted inspectors have subscribed to the MYTH that socket covers are essential! In December 2008 they told me "We no longer recommend the use of socket covers, but nor do we criticise their responsible use as part of a risk-assessed approach to electrical safety." Until last year Ofsted did not publish anything on the subject, but last September the attached publication for Ofsted Inspectors wad issued. This includes a statement on the subject (see page 11) which included the words:
"Inspectors should not set actions or make recommendations in relation to the use of socket covers and should not refer specifically to these in their reports."
As you will see, Ofsted pass the buck to RoSPA and CAPT - both of whom make it plain that socket covers are unnecessary, but neither of which are prepared to condemn them.
So, please pass this document to any care provider who still thinks that they are at risk of an Ofsted black mark if they act in the best interests of their children!
(The document can also be found on the Ofsted website at:
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/sites/defa...publications/e/Early years September 2011.pdf )
I have communicated with Ofsted on this many times, no one there has ever admitted that it was ever Ofsted policy to demand socket covers, but there is no doubt that many individual Ofsted inspectors have subscribed to the MYTH that socket covers are essential! In December 2008 they told me "We no longer recommend the use of socket covers, but nor do we criticise their responsible use as part of a risk-assessed approach to electrical safety." Until last year Ofsted did not publish anything on the subject, but last September the attached publication for Ofsted Inspectors wad issued. This includes a statement on the subject (see page 11) which included the words:
"Inspectors should not set actions or make recommendations in relation to the use of socket covers and should not refer specifically to these in their reports."
As you will see, Ofsted pass the buck to RoSPA and CAPT - both of whom make it plain that socket covers are unnecessary, but neither of which are prepared to condemn them.
So, please pass this document to any care provider who still thinks that they are at risk of an Ofsted black mark if they act in the best interests of their children!
(The document can also be found on the Ofsted website at:
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/sites/defa...publications/e/Early years September 2011.pdf )
OP
CLB
The below was the reply I got from Ofsted this morning:
"Dear Mr. *********,
Thank you for your e-mail.
Ofsted is the Office for Standards in Education, Children's Services and Skills in England and our role is to inspect schools/children's services and adult learning facilities and report on the findings. Issues such as this fall outside our legal remit as we do not advise as to whether or not socket covers should be used this is for the setting to risk asses.
If you would like more information on what Ofsted do please visit our website About Us or read our leaflet 'Ofsted who we are and what we do'.
However, the following organisation may be able to provide you with the information you require as they are responsible for the regulation and inspection frameworks.
Home - Welcome
Should you require any further help or assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Regards
Owen Sidgwick
Ofsted - National Business Unit
TEL: 0300 123 1231"
It seems nobody in officialdom wants to stick his or her neck on the line and condemn these things once and for all. Could it be that manufacturers are lobbying quietly to maintain their production lines?
"Dear Mr. *********,
Thank you for your e-mail.
Ofsted is the Office for Standards in Education, Children's Services and Skills in England and our role is to inspect schools/children's services and adult learning facilities and report on the findings. Issues such as this fall outside our legal remit as we do not advise as to whether or not socket covers should be used this is for the setting to risk asses.
If you would like more information on what Ofsted do please visit our website About Us or read our leaflet 'Ofsted who we are and what we do'.
However, the following organisation may be able to provide you with the information you require as they are responsible for the regulation and inspection frameworks.
Home - Welcome
Should you require any further help or assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Regards
Owen Sidgwick
Ofsted - National Business Unit
TEL: 0300 123 1231"
It seems nobody in officialdom wants to stick his or her neck on the line and condemn these things once and for all. Could it be that manufacturers are lobbying quietly to maintain their production lines?
OP
trev
CLB;575872 Could it be that manufacturers are lobbying quietly to maintain their production lines?[/QUOTE said:
OP
axel132132
If enough of us Email ofstead there eventually going to see it and think wow these electricians are persistent and maybe call a meeting about it and see what they can do but i had an email from another Nursery now that said exactly the same Ofstead say they HAVE to have them in to get a better score..
Although ofstead never replied to me.. B***ARDS lol
Although ofstead never replied to me.. B***ARDS lol
OP
CLB
I've emailed the Prime Minister's Office direct. Guess it makes sense to go straight to the top lol
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- 97
Axel, did you send the Ofsted document to those nurseries?
OP
axel132132
Nope not yet
- Reaction score
- 97
SHOUT!: A reminder to everyone - FatallyFlawed - Child Plug Socket Covers Campaign
I like that!
Here are some more suggestions.
The biggest influence on Government safety thinking is RoSPA "Our mission is to save lives and reduce injuries". But, although we tend to think of RoSPA as a charity - and they promote that idea heavily, if you take a look at their accounts you will see that it is a substantial business, with most of its funding coming from Government. One of their biggest income generators is the "SAFE AT HOME SCHEME" which they run on behalf of the Government. RoSPA are far from independent, and they do not like to rock the boat. They are driven by statistics rather than any direct analysis of what constitutes danger, and because there are no detailed statistics on accidents related to sockets they take the view that there is not a problem. Here is an extract from an email from RoSPA's Deputy Chief Executive:
"As our Policy statement on the subject suggests, we are deliberately neither in favour nor against the use of socket covers because on the positive side, they can prevent young children from plugging in appliances like hair straighteners...and reduce the risk of serious burns. On the negative side, the standard British plug socket is an inherently very safe design and there is no need to use socket covers in an attempt to make them even more safe. RoSPA's position won't change unless evidence suggests that socket covers have suddenly started to seriously harm hundreds of children every year."
That seems to us like hundreds too many to sacrifice!
RoSPA do not employ people with any expertise in the subject, their retained "Product Safety Consultant" once told me that the 13A sockets in his home did not have shutters, when I queried why he thought that, he told me that there was no sign of the shutters on the outside of the socket!
The RoSPA policy on electricity refers to "Modern 13-amp power sockets made to BS 1363:1995 incorporate a shutter mechanism, which prevent inappropriate access to the live connectors." That causes confusion. What it should say is, of course, "13-amp power sockets made to BS 1363 incorporate a shutter mechanism, which prevent inappropriate access to the live connectors." but understanding that all BS 1363 sockets have shutters seems to be beyond them!
How about everyone on this forum who feels strongly about this sends an email to RoSPA? [email protected]
While you are at it you could also contact the Child Accident Prevention Trust "We are committed to reducing the number of children and young people killed, disabled or seriously injured in accidents." CAPT says: "Electric sockets are less dangerous than you might think. They’re designed to prevent toddlers (and anyone else) getting shocks, so they’re quite safe. You do not need socket covers to make them safe, but they might stop young children plugging in appliances that can cause a fire. However, it’s much safer to put appliances away rather than rely on socket covers."
As FatallyFlawed points out in our FAQs, the idea that socket covers can prevent children plugging in dangerous appliances is simply wrong, and distracts from the message that such appliances should be kept safely out of reach.
Contact CAPT at [email protected]
(CAPT also wrote the piece on the Government website which says:
"Plug socket coversIt is very difficult for a child to get an electric shock by playing with a socket, so you shouldn't need to use socket covers. However, in some instances they may stop young children plugging in heaters or other appliances that could cause burns or start a fire. You should not rely on socket covers as they are not regulated for safety. It's much better to make sure appliances are safely put away.")
The Electrical Safety Council also gives confusing advice:
"Socket Blanking Plugs
We don’t promote the use of socket blanking plugs as we don’t consider normal household sockets a serious risk to children.
These sockets have built in safety shutters to prevent access to the live parts inside. However, we understand that using these plugs may give parents and carers additional peace of mind. It’s your choice."
Electricians know that these things are not safe, so why does the ESC say it is OK to use them? Contact them with your views at: [email protected]
And finally, contact your local MP and tell him/her what you think, and why.
Please make your voices heard!
I like that!
Here are some more suggestions.
The biggest influence on Government safety thinking is RoSPA "Our mission is to save lives and reduce injuries". But, although we tend to think of RoSPA as a charity - and they promote that idea heavily, if you take a look at their accounts you will see that it is a substantial business, with most of its funding coming from Government. One of their biggest income generators is the "SAFE AT HOME SCHEME" which they run on behalf of the Government. RoSPA are far from independent, and they do not like to rock the boat. They are driven by statistics rather than any direct analysis of what constitutes danger, and because there are no detailed statistics on accidents related to sockets they take the view that there is not a problem. Here is an extract from an email from RoSPA's Deputy Chief Executive:
"As our Policy statement on the subject suggests, we are deliberately neither in favour nor against the use of socket covers because on the positive side, they can prevent young children from plugging in appliances like hair straighteners...and reduce the risk of serious burns. On the negative side, the standard British plug socket is an inherently very safe design and there is no need to use socket covers in an attempt to make them even more safe. RoSPA's position won't change unless evidence suggests that socket covers have suddenly started to seriously harm hundreds of children every year."
That seems to us like hundreds too many to sacrifice!
RoSPA do not employ people with any expertise in the subject, their retained "Product Safety Consultant" once told me that the 13A sockets in his home did not have shutters, when I queried why he thought that, he told me that there was no sign of the shutters on the outside of the socket!
The RoSPA policy on electricity refers to "Modern 13-amp power sockets made to BS 1363:1995 incorporate a shutter mechanism, which prevent inappropriate access to the live connectors." That causes confusion. What it should say is, of course, "13-amp power sockets made to BS 1363 incorporate a shutter mechanism, which prevent inappropriate access to the live connectors." but understanding that all BS 1363 sockets have shutters seems to be beyond them!
How about everyone on this forum who feels strongly about this sends an email to RoSPA? [email protected]
While you are at it you could also contact the Child Accident Prevention Trust "We are committed to reducing the number of children and young people killed, disabled or seriously injured in accidents." CAPT says: "Electric sockets are less dangerous than you might think. They’re designed to prevent toddlers (and anyone else) getting shocks, so they’re quite safe. You do not need socket covers to make them safe, but they might stop young children plugging in appliances that can cause a fire. However, it’s much safer to put appliances away rather than rely on socket covers."
As FatallyFlawed points out in our FAQs, the idea that socket covers can prevent children plugging in dangerous appliances is simply wrong, and distracts from the message that such appliances should be kept safely out of reach.
Contact CAPT at [email protected]
(CAPT also wrote the piece on the Government website which says:
"Plug socket coversIt is very difficult for a child to get an electric shock by playing with a socket, so you shouldn't need to use socket covers. However, in some instances they may stop young children plugging in heaters or other appliances that could cause burns or start a fire. You should not rely on socket covers as they are not regulated for safety. It's much better to make sure appliances are safely put away.")
The Electrical Safety Council also gives confusing advice:
"Socket Blanking Plugs
We don’t promote the use of socket blanking plugs as we don’t consider normal household sockets a serious risk to children.
These sockets have built in safety shutters to prevent access to the live parts inside. However, we understand that using these plugs may give parents and carers additional peace of mind. It’s your choice."
Electricians know that these things are not safe, so why does the ESC say it is OK to use them? Contact them with your views at: [email protected]
And finally, contact your local MP and tell him/her what you think, and why.
Please make your voices heard!
OP
trev
I've just contacted our local BBC and ITV news services about the campaign but I'm now thinking there should be some sort of co ordination. Thoughts guys
OP
vishal1234
The sooner the world is rid of “childproof socket covers” the better it will be.
- Reaction score
- 97
I am going to ask Dan if he will ask members to start contacting the organisations I mention a couple of posts above, but I think that people sending messages in their own words is probably important, more effective than many folk sending the same message. You are all professionals, so your own views on the risks are what counts!
If you need to find the contact details for your MP, enter your postcode in the "Find your MP" box on this website: Lists of MPs - UK Parliament
I have attached the latest revision of our Fact Sheet which shows the dimensional errors of socket covers.
View attachment Socket_Cover_Pin_Dimensions.pdf
The founders of FatallyFlawed are very grateful to Tony for starting this thread, and for the enthusiastic responses it has generated. Let's keep up the push, and go for Gold!
OP
trev
What I meant by co ordination was to focus on one organisation at a time for example, one MP might get an email this week another might get one next but if we were to say this week we're going to hit MPs and a load of them get the info it might have more impact than them getting it one at a time, similarly with all the other organisations we need to hit
OP
Silly Sausage
Don't know it this has this already been suggested?
Would there be any worth in starting an epetition?
HM Government e-petitions
Would there be any worth in starting an epetition?
HM Government e-petitions
OP
trev
Is there an e petition that we could send to a load of different places?
Edit-epetitions.net
Edit-epetitions.net
OP
nobelz66
Hi thanks for the reply 185mm
OP
ringroadman
Go for it,you are all doing a great job.Keep using word of mouth.
- - - Updated - - -
Go for it,you are all doing a great job.Keep using word of mouth.
- - - Updated - - -
Go for it,you are all doing a great job.Keep using word of mouth.
OP
Ant1973
well done
Reply to A reminder to everyone - FatallyFlawed - Child Plug Socket Covers Campaign in the Industrial Electricians' Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net
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