Discuss Adding RCD to existing installation - what options are now allowable? in the DIY Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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aesmith

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Hi,

First off let me say that this will be a professional job, but I want to fully understand the possible options before getting anyone to look at and quote for the work. I'm posting in DIY as I'm not an electrician, although I think I understand many aspects.

The house has had a very recent new consumer unit fitted to replace an old fuse board, but without a rewire. The board is a standard looking Hager model with two pole main switch, 9 MCB circuits, and five available ways. As far as I can determine there is no RCD either in or outside the CU. I'm surprised as I though that RCD protection was fitted as a matter of course nowadays, but I guess the practice is different when working on an existing installation. I am trying to get hold of the paperwork from the CU replacement, in case that provides more info.

What options do you think we would have? I believe, but please correct me, that it's now allowed to have a single external RCD protection the whole installation which is what we had in a previous house. Is it likely that the Hager CU could be reconfigured to create a split RCD/non-RCD configuration, or could that only be determined by an electrician looking inside?

Any comments welcome.

Thanks, Tony S
 
Could you post a picture of your new CU, it will make things a lot easier. If you can't post a pic try uploading it to a hosting site or until a mod gives you rights too.
 
I would advise AGAINST a single up front RCD, unless the house is tested thoroughly, or you could be walking into a lot of hassle. To post a picky you need 6 posts
 
That's just a standard DB, not even split load, all those circuits should be RCD protected. You may be able to get a kit to turn it into a dual RCD board, do you have a certificate with test results on it issued to you?

If I was you I would be asking the original contractor to come back and install one that complies with the regs. All at no cost to yourself.
 
As above get the contractor back and get him to put it right, if your not paying for it tell him you would like rcbo's on each circuit.
 
Any problems come back and we will give you some reg numbers to throw at them.That should make them listen abit more
 
Was this done for you or the previous owner? your op isn't clear.
 
If you get hassle from said electrician, I'd be willing for a small fee to come, do some tests and write a report outlining the faults with the board and any issues missed, Might give you some more leverage, especially with Trading Standards etc, who might have more than a passing interest.
Also is the electrician registered with SELECT, NICEIC etc?
 
Thanks everyone. The work was done for us, but sub-contracted by the firm that was doing some building repairs. The CU replacement was his electrician's recommendation following a visit to repair a fault.

Is it quite clear that a CU replacement would need to include RCD protection in order to comply? I wasn't sure on that, after all replacing fuses with MCBs is a step in the right direction even as it stands. It would be helpful if you could point out some regulations to that effect.

Thanks, Tony S
 
reg. 411.3.3 ( socket outlets). 701.415.2 (bathrooms), and 522.6.101 ( cables in walls) for starters.
 
Cheers, and are those retrospective - ie any work on the installation needs to bring it into compliance with these regs? I just want to make sure I'm completely sure before I start making a fuss.
 
those regs apply to any installation done after july 2008. so it's not a question of being retrospective. should have had a dual RCD board fitted ( or RCBOs) when it was installed. in fact, reg 411.3.3 goes back even further in time.
 
Sorry, I guess retrospective wasn't the right term, I meant applicable to work done on an existing installation. The house and at least some of it's electrics will predate the 16th Edition let alone the 17th. I wanted to be 100% clear that installation of a replacement CU needs to be to current standard, and can't be done on a like for like basis. I'm preparing for a possible argument, and the defence may be that the house had no RCD before the work, and replacing fuses with MCBs is an improvement in itself.

Tony S
 
any work done on an existing installation has to be done to current regulations. however, existing , untouched parts of the installation need not be altered to comply with current regs, although must be safe for continued use. earthing and bonding need to be checked and if necessary, fitted, prior to carrying out a CU replacement.
 
Any sparky would know that a replacement CU would need RCD's. That said if and I say IF, he found low IR he may have decided to fit a non RCD board - only reading the EIC would tell you and us the reason. If you haven't paid for the board yet, don't until some paperwork and explanations are forthcoming.
 
Thanks for the comments. I'm still chasing this up, and don't have the EIC for CU replacement yet. I have been sent the Minor Works certificate for a repair by the same guys in Jan 2013 and which recommended replacement of the CU.

Couple of oddities on the certificate - it cites BS 7671 2001 as the applicable standard, both in the section that says "... inspected and tested in accordance with BS 7671 (IET Wiring Regulations), amended to 2001..." and in the section for noting departures where again it's departures from 2001 regs that would be noted (none).

Allowing for ignorance on my part could it be that form has been used because it was a repair to a circuit that had been installed to that earlier standards, and is correct and normal practice?

The other oddity is that the earthing is marked as TN-C, is that conceivable?

Thanks, Tony S
 
It sounds to me like this outfit have used an old Minor Works Cert dating back to the 16th edition and therefore not valid. What repairs have been carried out that are noted on this cert btw?
Also CU changes are notifiable with BC but I have a sneaky feeling this one wont have!
 

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