Advice on Installing Brick Lights

[rjdainty1]

Hello all,

I've recently begun building a retaining wall in my garden for a patio area, I decided to go for 6 brick lights along with other lighting for the area (not decided exactly what that will look like just yet). The brick lights I went for are these.

I've been having a read up on how best to wire these lights, I have a garage nearby and figured that the 6 x 4.6W lights shouldn't put too much strain on my garage. However wiring them up has got me wondering the best way to do this.

I've fitted lights, smart heating and some other basics around the house but don't have a massive amount of experience. I was hoping that I could find a solution that wouldn't involve me taking six individual runs of cable into the garage and joining them there, but most the solutions I've read about seem to suggest that many outdoor joining solutions will not last due to the elements.

A number of people have mentioned Wiska boxes filled with gel, which sounds great and about my price point but I'm not sure what to do for the best. I'm also a little unsure about the earthing. The garage is about 1m from one part of my wall although I might possibly send the cabling around the outside of the garden which would mean the cable would be a minimum of 10m long.

Do you think the Wiska box solution might be good enough, or should I perhaps just run all wiring into the garage? Or of course, if there's another solution I'd be happy to hear it.

Thanks
Rob

 

[SJD]

Most brick lights will corrode or cable entry points leak, to let in some combination of water, soil, insects, worms over time, often only a year or two. I've come across ones filled with water, and ones filled with soil and turned into a wormery, and ones that have become a slug nursery.

The cable entry needs to have a proper gland that seals against the cable. Forget any notion of trying to put 2 or 3 cables into one hole even with some sealant, that won't last.

Joints in Wiska boxes can work well, if done properly. Again, you must use proper glands to suit the cables, do not try to rely on the thin membranes that some of these boxes have. Use Wago (or similar) maintenance-free connectors, throw away the big choc-block connector that comes with the Wiska box. Ideally keep the boxes above ground and accessible, e.g. on the rear of the top of the wall, if not buried. If the boxes have to be buried, re-enterable gel (Magic Gel) that covers all the connections can help - and make sure you know where they are, one day they will need digging out.

Make sure you can easily isolate the lights (double pole, to also disconnect N) for when you do eventually have an issue and they start tripping the circuit.

Perhaps keep the odd spare brick light, as in a few years when one fails, you likely won't be able to buy a matching unit, and you will be struggling to find one similar.

Finally, if it were me, I'd fit some small/slim bulkhead lights on the wall instead, rather than anything recessed into them, I'd have much more confidence they will last.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I personal wouldn’t fit brick lights , as above they regularly fail and over time literally rot and disintegrate...
some sort of Pan shape bulk head Would be my preferred option...
something like this

Luceco Eco LED Mini Oval Bulkhead IP54

Bright and reliable illumination from a compact design – this stylish mini oval bulkhead light from Luceco will keep your home or office well lit, inside or outside.Use it to brighten up hallways and living spaces, or to add extra security for your porch or driveway – the IP54 rating and durable...

www.toolstation.com

 

[buzzlightyear]

the best for cables in walls for brick lights are galvbox and stuffing glands sealed properly.
and for brick lights are german stainless steel not Chinese .

 

[stevethesparks]

Most brick lights will corrode or cable entry points leak, to let in some combination of water, soil, insects, worms over time, often only a year or two. I've come across ones filled with water, and ones filled with soil and turned into a wormery, and ones that have become a slug nursery.

The cable entry needs to have a proper gland that seals against the cable. Forget any notion of trying to put 2 or 3 cables into one hole even with some sealant, that won't last.

Joints in Wiska boxes can work well, if done properly. Again, you must use proper glands to suit the cables, do not try to rely on the thin membranes that some of these boxes have. Use Wago (or similar) maintenance-free connectors, throw away the big choc-block connector that comes with the Wiska box. Ideally keep the boxes above ground and accessible, e.g. on the rear of the top of the wall, if not buried. If the boxes have to be buried, re-enterable gel (Magic Gel) that covers all the connections can help - and make sure you know where they are, one day they will need digging out.

Make sure you can easily isolate the lights (double pole, to also disconnect N) for when you do eventually have an issue and they start tripping the circuit.

Perhaps keep the odd spare brick light, as in a few years when one fails, you likely won't be able to buy a matching unit, and you will be struggling to find one similar.

Finally, if it were me, I'd fit some small/slim bulkhead lights on the wall instead, rather than anything recessed into them, I'd have much more confidence they will last.

Honest and great reply.

 

[pc1966]

While it might seem like a bit of a pain and excess of cable, if you can bring all lights in separately to the garage it makes any future fault-finding much easier as you (probably) don't have wet junction box(es) to worry about and can disconnect one light at a time to see what has gone wrong.

You will need an outdoor rated cable, probably no need for armour in this case and for ease of use then something like the H07RN-F rubber flexible stuff is a good choice and can be bought per-meter so possibly cheaper than a reel you only use half of. For example:

Superlec 3CORE 1.5MM 3183P H07RN-F EPR / PCP FLEXIBLE MAINS CABLE - EN60332-1-2

H07RN-F Cable is a non armoured flexible mains and control cable designed primarily as a trailing cable for use in the supply of energy for portable or mobile equipment.The cable is Ideal for use with transformer pumps, welders grinders, temporary lighting cable and feed cables to heavy mobile...

www.superlecdirect.com

Also worth considering is NYY-J "Tuf Sheath" cable, basically it is like armoured but without the steel wire armour so it tough, stays in place, and is fine for most situations that have no imminent risk of mechanical damage (including burying in ground without too much in the way of stones, etc) and no need for the special glands to terminate the armour, just use plastic IP65 style glands for water sealing (as for the rubber cable).

 

[Williamshoeste]

It took me a while to find a nice slim, surface mounted 3000k warm light that wasn’t a thick bulkhead.

If you go for S/M, I got two of these. In black or grey. Come in square or rectangle and can be bought from amazon as well and not a bad price.

SEVERUS

The Severus 3W LED is a landscape shaped direct guide light constructed from black ABS with a clear pc diffuser. IP65 and IK08 rated, making this surface mount fitting ideal for use in outdoor locations where you do not wish to cut a whole in your wall. The slim profile and modern design of the...

www.nationallighting.co.uk

 

[mattg4321]

Anything recessed into a retaining wall I only fit Ip68 ELV lights. Normally collingwood.

Not found an IP68 ELV brick light before though, so I don’t fit them.

Normal brick lights too many problems. Don’t bother imo

 

[Dustydazzler]

I did once install brick lights with a metal sleeve that goes in the wall , then the light slid into the metal retaining sleeve.
it would make changing out the fittings a bit easier When eventually they fail.
They were expensive , something like £200 each and were iGuzzini fittings imported from Italy iirc

 

[DefyG]

about my price point

What is your 'price point'? Do the fittings come pre-flexed, as will eliminate any need to ensure a good IP rating on the fitting (although I bought some cheap IP65 rated fittings once and the glands weren't even finger tight)! and with due respect £18/fitting is on the cheap side!

 

[rjdainty1]

Hello again all,

Thanks for all of the responses, first of all I think it's fairly safe to say that given the responses - I'm not completely comfortable with my choice in brick lights, but they're installed and outside the return window (with cement on too) so I'll plough ahead regardless :-/

Given the feedback provided, I've decided to change the way the lights are joined. The joint boxes seem like an unnecessary additional element to expose to the elements, so I'm now going to run the cable directly from inside the garage to each light individually - with a plan to join the cables just inside the garage (as pc1966 suggests). It looks like I can go underground with the cabling so it seems like a more sensible option to ensure the run from inside the garage to each individual light is completely sealed.

I've also reduced the number of brick lights I'll be installing, from 6 down to 4 in order to give me the spares that have been suggested. The lumens of the light also appear quite high so I think 4 will be plenty.

For the cable I'm a still a little unsure. I see both H07RN-F and NYY-J have been suggested, I've also heard that if the cables are wired to the mains and buried underground - I may have to declare them when finally selling the house unless they're encased in armour, not sure if anyone can tell me otherwise and whether that should dictate the cabling or sheathing I go for.

Which really now leaves the connection between the cabling and the lights themselves. Here's the brick lights - Blooma Neihart Brushed Black Mains-powered LED Outdoor Brick Wall light 200lm | DIY at B&Q - https://www.diy.com/departments/blooma-neihart-brushed-black-mains-powered-led-outdoor-brick-wall-light-200lm/1871317_BQ.prd for those asking about connections. There is a small rubber cover that looks as though I'll need to peirce to push the cable through but nothing more than that holding the moisture back. A friend suggested using grease tape on the connection, but not sure if anyone would suggest anything different?

Thanks again for the responses so far.
Rob

 

[rjdainty1]

Hello again,

I was hoping to buy the cabling this weekend, any further feedback to my last post would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[SJD]

You need proper glands at the cable entry points, not some flimsy cover/boot that you just pierce. Otherwise, before you know it, you will have water, or a wormery or slug farm or ants nest inside.

If there is no way to fit glands, and you have to use these covers, I'd suggest sealing the entry points up thoroughly with a weatherproof sealant.

 

[pc1966]

I know that NYY-J can be buried if there is no mechanical threat (it is just like SWA but without the SWA - if that makes sense) such as sharp stones, ground movement, digging activity, etc, but I'm not sure H07RN-F is specified for direct burial. Would need to look in to that.

In some form of duct it would be fine, but not permanently damp underground I suspect.

 

[davesparks]

It looks like I can go underground with the cabling so it seems like a more sensible option to ensure the run from inside the garage to each individual light is completely sealed.

For the cable I'm a still a little unsure. I see both H07RN-F and NYY-J have been suggested, I've also heard that if the cables are wired to the mains and buried underground - I may have to declare them when finally selling the house unless they're encased in armour, not sure if anyone can tell me otherwise and whether that should dictate the cabling or sheathing I go for.

Neither of those are suitable or compliant for burial underground, you need to use armoured cable (SWA) or another cable with an earthed metallic sheath or armour. And that cable must be properly terminated with the correct glands which are reliably connected to earth.

I've never heard of a need to declare underground cables when selling a house. But you will probably need to provide a copy of the electrical installation certificate for the work and the part P notice from LABC if it falls under part P.
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I know that NYY-J can be buried if there is no mechanical threat (it is just like SWA but without the SWA - if that makes sense) such as sharp stones, ground movement, digging activity, etc, but I'm not sure H07RN-F is specified for direct burial. Would need to look in to that.

In some form of duct it would be fine, but not permanently damp underground I suspect.

NYY-J is not compliant for direct burial as it does not incorporate an earthed metallic armour or sheath.

If it is to be installed underground in a duct then 'some form of duct' is not suitable, the duct must meet the standard for underground ducts as specified in BS7671.

 

[pc1966]

This is the sort of duct davesparks is referring to:

32/40mm Class 3 Electric Cable Black Ducting Coil (50m)

50m 32/40mm black ducting coil for electricity cables in Class 3 applications. With coupler and draw cord.

store.jdpipes.co.uk

You might want to ask around suppliers to see if they have any shorter lengths if, as suspected, you don't need anything like 50m.

Unless you have other garden projects involving underground runs of cables or similar where it would be useful.

 

[rjdainty1]

Thanks again everyone, some really useful comments. So I've measured up the cable lengths and the four cables add up to ~20m (2 + 4 + 6 + 8m).

Looking through the guidance, I was going to go for the following:

• 25m x 3-core 1.5mm2 armoured cable
• 4 x M20 Glands
• 2 x 20mm x 10m Corrugated Conduit

Following a read of this page, I wasn't going to get any heavy duty ducting given the cable type, but if I've misunderstood and you believe this is a mistake please let me know.

I'll then terminate the cables in the garage, put the four into a junction box and into a mains plug (BS1363). Which means I can easily use a smart plug to control. I plan to purchase tomorrow (just to give anyone time to shout "stop" in what I'm buying )

Thanks

 

[davesparks]

Looking through the guidance, I was going to go for the following:

• 25m x 3-core 1.5mm2 armoured cable
• 4 x M20 Glands
• 2 x 20mm x 10m Corrugated Conduit

They are the wrong glands for armoured cable, and you need 8 glands for 4 cables, one at each end of the cable.

 

[pc1966]

Also that duct is not outdoor rated. If you are using SWA then you don't need the duct as it can really be buried in most ground conditions without issue.

But as davesparks has pointed out, you need to use the correct glands for the SWA not just to keep the water out (which the plastic ones do) but also to ensure there is a sound electrical connection to the armor (which also has to be earthed, of course). Also you get SWA glands for indoor and outdoor use, obviously the outdoor type with the additional sealing back should be used on any outdoor connections!

If you use the 3-core wire that you propose, then you can get away with a SWA gland at the garage (power feed end) and using one of the 3 conductors at the CPC (i.e. earth wire) to connect to the lights at the far end (assuming they do need earthed which is most likely), and at the light end you can use a plastic gland. But best practice would be a proper SWA gland at both ends.

Also be aware that most 3 core SWA cable has the phase colors: brown, black, grey

You should sleeve the one you use for neutral with blue (as a normal single phase cable has) and green/yellow for the one you use as earth. Practices vary about which colour to reuse, some go for: grey -sleeve blue for N and black - sleeve green/yellow for earth, other the other way. Whatever you do make it consistent!

Also assembling a SWA gland is a bit trickier than the plastic ones as you need to prepare the armor, etc, but there are several youtube videos showing how it is done. I suspect you have not done it before, so if going down that route then practice first on a bit of wire and a gland that you are not needing.
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Also not the burial depth has to be sensible for the ground use - the 60cm often quoted allows for serious spade work, but on an agricultural field you would look at 1.1m or so. If you know it is never more than an ornamental region lightly troweled then a slightly shallower depth is OK but I would not go much less than 40cm.

 

[Midwest]

If you are using SWA then you don't need the duct as it can really be buried in most ground conditions without issue.

I like wheeling this link out, every time I read that.