Advice please regarding Electrics issues

[Northernjay81]

Hi, looking for a bit of advice by those in the know.

Living in a rented property (sadly not cheap at all) and had so many issues within 4 months it's unbelievable.

Was just looking for a quick bit of advice in relation the pictures attached. Been advised by a friend in the building industry that the wiring in the pictures is not acceptable. He told me far too much of the I believe (my words not his) insulation / coloured wiring is exposed and that the fact that the outer sheathing has been cut so deep that the copper is exposed is also not correct.

For a brief overview I believe that this socket was installed by my LL's contractor who to date has been found at fault for 5 water leaks, 1 yet to be found, 1 gas leak and a ever growing list by the day.

My next question is I'm pretty sure this guy is unqualified in every field. Given the socket in question is new due to alterations to the properties original layout, should this have 1. been subject to building regs and 2. done by a qualified electrician.

Any help would be hugely helpful

Thank you

 

[Northernjay81]

Sorry, not sure whether it's relevant but the socket is placed behind where the bath and shower would be had they not both currently been removed to source 1 of the many leaks and repair works undertaken. Something that only took place after I got the councils Private Tenants department involved and the LL was instructed to do the work.

 

[UNG]

Looking at those pictures suggests you are living in a building site
As part of your tenancy I assume you have been given the electrical and gas test certificates for the property although from what you are saying these will need to be updated when the work has finished
The cables to the socket clearly need reterminating so the outer sheath of the cable is within the socket back box, the exposed copper is the bare CPC in the twin & earth cable

 

[Northernjay81]

Thank you so much for the reply UNG.

As for the building site, you're no idea. Those pictures are really just the tip of the iceberg in regards the problems in the property and the major works that need to take place over the next few weeks minimum.

Quick follow up though. As that socket is new, that's a new stud wall that opened up 2 small rooms into the bathroom, would that have needed to registered with building regs and should it have been done by a qualified Electrician.

Sorry to, property certainly did not look like this when we viewed it nor moved in, the state is due to fixing a leak in the bathroom that the LL ignored, denied for over 3 months.

We were given certs for both Gas and Electric as per legal requirement but both are suspect given the major gas leak we had due to faulty installation of gas pipe to hob and our Electric one being done allegedy by a guy who works and lives 3 hours from here so a 6 hour round trip!

 

[UNG]

If you think the electrical cert is suspect if you redact any addresses and names you could post it on here for comment as it is usually quite easy to identify the suspect ones, including a 6 hour round trip into an EICR would make it a very expensive EICR

Not all electrical work is notifiable but it should still be carried out in compliance with BS7671 by a suitably skilled person

 

[Northernjay81]

As per your recommendation UNG I printed off, then black marked the necessary info and scanned in the EICR.

Apologies it has taken a number of days to do, between dealing with other issues and having the words most temperamental printer scanner it's not been the easiest of tasks.

One question I will ask again is with regards building regs. So I read recently that in the case of a bathroom / near a water source this is classified as a "special location". If I understand this correctly, given the main bathroom we have now was previously 2 sperate rooms (Toilet in one, sink and bath in the other), these electrics are newly installed since the renovation.

Surely this sees them fall into the category of "special location" and should have seen them submitted to local building control? I may be getting that all wrong, just thought worth an ask.

 

[littlespark]

The wording for special locations is “a room containing a bath or shower”
So a WC with only a toilet and basin is not a special location, neither is a kitchen with a sink.

The EICR looks ok to begin with, but RCD trip times on img004 are suspect.

The EICR will be somewhat redundant as any new work should have an EIC or Minor Works certificate that covers just the new alterations


Your very first pic in the OP shows bare floorboards that looks like where there was a leak….. and someone’s bare feet.

If you’re worried about the electrics, then don’t go wandering about in bare feet.

 

[Lister1987]

Speak with the local authority again and mention the fitness for habilitation legislation

Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018

www.legislation.gov.uk

If at all possible I'd get looking for another property

 

[Northernjay81]

So the small bathroom downstairs, basically a cupboard, has the worlds lowest and smallest toilet, tiny sink and shower cubicle. This area before being renovated was a utility room in the property. The contractor has partitioned of half of this for the bathroom and will have been responsible (in terms of electrics) for the installation of the shower, 2 overhead lights, extractor fan and the light and electrical sockets outside of the room.

Slightly the same upstairs as the bathroom was previously 2 small rooms, one containing a toilet, the other a sink and bath. Those were knocked through to create a larger room where the contractor has fitted 4 or 6 overhead spotlights, extractor fan, and light switches sockets outside. I don't understand why a socket has been added to the hall as it doesn't really need to be there and also would have though having it in a location where a water leak is highly possible would not be allowed.

In terms of the ECIR looking suspect, as I really have no idea when it comes to electrics can you advise a little more on this please.

The ECIR was done after these alterations had been made to the property, does that change it possibly being redundant?

I tried contacting our local building control to see if anything was submitted regarding the alterations to the property, installations of new electrics but they claimed they were unable to assist and I would need to speak to the health and safety dept. Looking at their site last night they only have options relating to workplace safety so not sure that is correct.

And, yes, sorry that's my missus barefoot. That picture was taken a few ago when the flooring first came up, before the bath had been ripped out and we had seen the condition of the electrics behind it.

 

[Rapskallion]

Those are outstanding RCD trip times for a BS60898 type B, unless I missed it, I don't see any mention of a main RCD either.

 

[Northernjay81]

Is that a good outstanding, or a too good to be true outstanding? Sorry, again, I know less than nothing about electrics.

 

[Rapskallion]

Is that a good outstanding, or a too good to be true outstanding? Sorry, again, I know less than nothing about electrics.

Sorry for my sarcasm, electricians are renowned for it.
The listed BS60898 is a standard protective device (MCB) and not an RCD, that MCB will not give you a trip time as the cert suggests. I don't see a mention that there is a main switch RCD either. I cannot make assumptions as to what is actually installed as I don't have that information, but for me the cert does not logically tally.

 

[Northernjay81]

As I have builders in currently finishing off the the bathroom, I am at home currently. Is there anything I can take a photo of and upload that would provide you a better indication as to whether there is something not quite right about the cert?

I am inclined to not trust it as we are currently dealing with Gas Safe over the validity with regards the Gas Cert and they have an engineer coming next week to do a visual inspection as the LL denied permission to do an actual test, which just alarms us further.

 

[Rapskallion]

As I have builders in currently finishing off the the bathroom, I am at home currently. Is there anything I can take a photo of and upload that would provide you a better indication as to whether there is something not quite right about the cert?

I am inclined to not trust it as we are currently dealing with Gas Safe over the validity with regards the Gas Cert and they have an engineer coming next week to do a visual inspection as the LL denied permission to do an actual test, which just alarms us further

there is obviously a concern over the validity of the cert, just on the first pages suggests it was 25% tested, yet there are readings for every circuit which tells me it was 100% tested, there are no comments on the existing installation, None, think of this cert as an MOT certificate for your electrics, how often do you take an old car for an MOT and have no advisories. bring this up with the landlord or go directly to the accreditation company, quoting the enrolment number as they will have a complaint dept. that can look into their members.
there's nothing else I can really add. I have just offered my opinion.

 

[Northernjay81]

Thank you Rapskallion, I'll do as you have suggested.

 

[DPG]

there is obviously a concern over the validity of the cert, just on the first pages suggests it was 25% tested, yet there are readings for every circuit which tells me it was 100% tested, there are no comments on the existing installation, None, think of this cert as an MOT certificate for your electrics, how often do you take an old car for an MOT and have no advisories. bring this up with the landlord or go directly to the accreditation company, quoting the enrolment number as they will have a complaint dept. that can look into their members.
there's nothing else I can really add. I have just offered my opinion.

To be fair, the 25% figure is the coverage of the report, ie testing and inspection. Its not necessarily saying that only 25% of circuits were tested, probably that 25% of accessories were removed and inspected.

 

[Northernjay81]

Quick follow up while I think of it. Looking at the EICR again, it states approx age of the Wiring system to be 1 year. This suggests that the property was completely rewired whilst being renovated. As such it is highly likely this was done by the contractor (one guy) responsible to date for a multitude of issues.

As such, would rewiring a property require notice to Building regs and have to meet standards set out by them, and additionally would the person doing the work require by law to be trained and certified to any standard as per UK regs.

 

[Rapskallion]

Quick follow up while I think of it. Looking at the EICR again, it states approx age of the Wiring system to be 1 year. This suggests that the property was completely rewired whilst being renovated. As such it is highly likely this was done by the contractor (one guy) responsible to date for a multitude of issues.

As such, would rewiring a property require notice to Building regs and have to meet standards set out by them, and additionally would the person doing the work require by law to be trained and certified to any standard as per UK regs.

Carrying out a partial or full rewire will often involve creating new circuits or a consumer unit change. This means the work is notifiable to your local building control department. and the landlord would have received an Electrical Installation Certificate

 

[Northernjay81]

Thank you.

So I emailed building control yesterday who first replied saying it would not be them I need to speak to, it would be the local Environmental Health dept. Looking at their website it all relates to work related issues so I emailed again this morning and they replied with:

"I had referred this surveyor for additional advice who had informed me that as the works are over 2 years old we cannot take enforcement action and recommended you to contact environmental health in this instance.

We do not have record that the works were carried out by an installer registered to the competent persons register."

I am not sure where they are getting the over 2 years ago part from as my understanding is that it was done more recently than that so I have asked the question.

 

[littlespark]

Photograph of the consumer unit that the report corresponds to would be good.

The rcd time column should be filled in with the measured time displayed on a specialist RCD test device, which will be measured in milliseconds…. And should be less than 40ms.