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bcm_spark

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Arms
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Not sure if this is the right section or not.

I priced for a job yesterday to fit a new double socket. There were no sockets nearby that I could come from etc and reckoned that the job would take 2 hours max plus a couple of lengths of YT2, double pattress and a double socket, test and cert for £70 at the most. The lady nearly died!!

Needless to say I haven't got the job and she told me there and then. I've lost a couple of jobs through price but just reckoned I was unlucky. I don't see myself as being cheap cheap but I do a good quality job with quality materials.
 
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B

beaver74

2hr @28.00 = £50.00

materials 2g skt
2g box
2 lth tunking
7m 2.5 if you can spur
fixture and fitting
fuel to get to job
print out a cert
all for £20.00 dnt worry about it eigther she will ring back or get a polish guy to bo it
 
BCM Spark

Don't fall into the trap of doing jobs for nothing, at 'cost' I mean.

I've recently lost out on a few jobs.
One was a rewire on a 3 bed 17th century Cottage. It wasn't going to be a simple one as you can imagine, crumbling lathe & plaster walls, massive floorboards which won't come up, flat roof Kitchen extension, new earth electrode etc. etc.
Only round the corner from me so went in at about £2700, didn't get the job they found someone at half the price??
We can't compete with the non-Registered, non-insured and probably non-qualified, glorified Handymen who are allowed to garrote our Trade.

Don't get me started!

In seriousness, I feel the Bodies ( NICEIC, NAPIT & ECA) don't seem to be doing anything about it.
 
K

kung

BCM Spark

Don't fall into the trap of doing jobs for nothing, at 'cost' I mean.

I've recently lost out on a few jobs.
One was a rewire on a 3 bed 17th century Cottage. It wasn't going to be a simple one as you can imagine, crumbling lathe & plaster walls, massive floorboards which won't come up, flat roof Kitchen extension, new earth electrode etc. etc.
Only round the corner from me so went in at about £2700, didn't get the job they found someone at half the price??
We can't compete with the non-Registered, non-insured and probably non-qualified, glorified Handymen who are allowed to garrote our Trade.

Don't get me started!

In seriousness, I feel the Bodies ( NICEIC, NAPIT & ECA) don't seem to be doing anything about it.
Well said Archie ! i agree 100%
 
T

Tapouchoke

No your not that is the going rate
I charge £55 per socket and £35 for minor works
I think these people live in the dark ages and still think a pint cost 2 guineas
This person probably lives in a big house nice car and won’t spend a brass farthing

You are a trade’s man not a painter
sorry for ranting
 

bcm_spark

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Thanks for the comments guys. You are dead right about unqualified persons carrying out electrical work. I have lost a few rewires to these type of people who turn up at the weekend after work with a car full of nicked gear and cobble a rewire together in 2 days with no cert. I thought I was pricing about right but after loosing a few jobs over prices it got me worried i was going wrong somewhere.
 
S

Staffie

Yeah, couldn't agree with the above posts. I Recently done a double socket and an outside light, really straight forward job, very short cable runs, YT2 etc. Charged the woman £100

Quoted a 3 bedroomed house with a flat roof kitchen etc for a rewire, pretty big rooms etc. The job was 35 miles from home. To be honest I never wanted the job and just threw in the figure of about £3K max.

Another spark turned up while I was there, he told me he quoted a similar job the other week for £1700! I congratulated him and told him the job was his! He then told me that his £1700 quote had been beat and he never got the job!!!!

I charge £25p/h and I usually add around 20% on top of cost for materials!

You ain't expensive brother!
 
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M

megaman83

excluding family and friends ill charge £25 an hour or if its a job that i dont particually want ill go sky high. and if i do get the job ( and 1 in 10 i do ) its really worth my while to do it. i didnt train at college for four years to work for peanuts.
 
T

Tapouchoke

excluding family and friends ill charge £25 an hour or if its a job that i dont particually want ill go sky high. and if i do get the job ( and 1 in 10 i do ) its really worth my while to do it. i didnt train at college for four years to work for peanuts.

:cool:hear hear
 
S

Scott F

Not sure about yt2 but round our way mt2 is slang for mini trunkling or marshall tufflex (a brand) mt2 being the one most used for rewires socket drops etc 2 being the size of it
 
K

kung

Hi Irishsailor
YT2 is trunking !
 
G

Guest123

I am new to this and trying to learn, What is YT2??
Hey there.

YT2 is PVC mini trunking for surface wireing, 25x16mm in size.

You get other sizes too - YT0, YT1, YT2, YT3, YT4 etc etc they vary in size from 8x16mm up to 100x100mm which is then PVC maxi trunking.

Cheers:D
 
P

pattester

Dont worry BCM its even worse in pat testing. The price has gone down so much in the last couple of years I cant believe anyone can do it properly anymore - specially the big companies offering to do it for almost nothing - its a scandal. dont think the registered bodies are interested in that either
 
K

kung

Dont worry BCM its even worse in pat testing. The price has gone down so much in the last couple of years I cant believe anyone can do it properly anymore - specially the big companies offering to do it for almost nothing - its a scandal. dont think the registered bodies are interested in that either
The registered bodies are only there to lift dosh from your wallet ! nobody is intrested in some bloke down the pub doing the work for a few beers ! The rules are there but were the only ones that follow them ! when we compete with these prices even now with the ressesion most people just want a cheap job done by a cheap cowboy (the few pints bloke in the pub). :mad:
 
B

bleward

christ i only charge £15 an hour, i need to up my rates haha
 

bcm_spark

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
you do need to lift you rates pal, christ, how do you survive on that?? I get £15 per hour subbying working need a lot more to cover my overheads when doing my own work - niceic, insurance etc etc.
 
S

suburban

The sooner there's a registration scheme for proper trades people the better, then customers would realise their paying for a person who's taken the time and money to get where they are.
 
M

maddfridge

The sooner there's a registration scheme for proper trades people the better, then customers would realise their paying for a person who's taken the time and money to get where they are.

hi there

oh come on my friend even if there was a proper trade organization would people realize that !
simply not :mad:

all they want is to have the job done at the lowest cost they are not in the least bothered about your qualifications etc .:p

all they want is the job done cheap and you know someone will do it cheaper than you.

especially now with the way of the world. think corgi !


cheers :rolleyes:
 
S

suburban

I live in hope, maybe one day.
 
M

matt456

If no one informs the authorities about flybynight sparkies with names and job locations how the hell are they supposed to know??????? You have to give them a chance if you see something suspicious i.e botched wiring or mega cheap jobs that are likely to be done dangerously, inform building control or similar body. its ok whinging on here about it,why not take a stand against them
 
A

alexg

Matt's has GOT to be THE most important post on here for ages guys.... on all levels.

What do you say - made me think and have already listed 3 jobs in my head I've seen recently that I'm goinh to get onto.

All for one and one for all and all that?
 
S

suburban

Good points matt and alex, now's a good time to stand up for the decent sparks.
 

marcusone

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Arms
YT2 is the size code for 25mm x 16mm mini trunking. SPF is speed fix trunking . ZT is twin compartment trunking . There are others too, just "google" mini trunking.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
R

Richard Andrews

Not sure if this is the right section or not.

I priced for a job yesterday to fit a new double socket. There were no sockets nearby that I could come from etc and reckoned that the job would take 2 hours max plus a couple of lengths of YT2, double pattress and a double socket, test and cert for £70 at the most. The lady nearly died!!

Needless to say I haven't got the job and she told me there and then. I've lost a couple of jobs through price but just reckoned I was unlucky. I don't see myself as being cheap cheap but I do a good quality job with quality materials.
You're not too expensive - add the travel to and from the job, getting your tools out, etc, etc, etc...

Re the reply concerning non-Part P probably undertaking the work... Simply phone your local building control to ask if a notification or planning ap have been made for the address.

After the Floods in Carlisle I was sorting out all sorts of issues on behalf of house-owners AFTER reinstatement works as a consequence of non-compliant electrics and, believe me, don't be afraid to be on the right side of the law and Part P is the law.

If you want to safeguard your future you have to do what's right, but what's right is for you to decide.
 
we are currently taking a client to court over non payment of our electrical work.

The courts decided in their wisdom to appoint an 'expert' to value the job. each party were asked to give him an instruction adn in ours we asked him to ascertain whether the work was priced between the highest and lowest price in the area for this sort of work (domestic).

Even after we had obtained over ten other quotes for the same work and sent them to the 'expert' he dismissed them as saying that even if they were to be taken into account he would need to allow for JIB rate increases and Materials increases and then the current economic situation. We are currently in the process of waiting for a reply as to why he didnt do this.

Any way his report has stated that we should be charging £16.41 an hour as this is based in JIB electricians wages!!! He gets this from Luckins.

We are not JIB affiliated and nor our our sparks.

WE'RE ALL DOOMED LADS.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
R

Richard Andrews

The rate is for JIB Sparks - not for the business that utilises the human resource!

Whatprice? is an independant site on the web - have a look at the prices for electricians...

What was the 'Expert Witness' Qualifications? Was he a spark and a member of institute electrical engineers (M.I.E.E.)?

Cowboys give us a bad name, but those who don't pay what's agreed or try and sometimes do wriggle out of such make me sick. I've been done right over in the past and now work on the basis that prevention is better than cure...

we are currently taking a client to court over non payment of our electrical work.

The courts decided in their wisdom to appoint an 'expert' to value the job. each party were asked to give him an instruction adn in ours we asked him to ascertain whether the work was priced between the highest and lowest price in the area for this sort of work (domestic).

Even after we had obtained over ten other quotes for the same work and sent them to the 'expert' he dismissed them as saying that even if they were to be taken into account he would need to allow for JIB rate increases and Materials increases and then the current economic situation. We are currently in the process of waiting for a reply as to why he didnt do this.

Any way his report has stated that we should be charging £16.41 an hour as this is based in JIB electricians wages!!! He gets this from Luckins.

We are not JIB affiliated and nor our our sparks.

WE'RE ALL DOOMED LADS.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Thought I'd add a bit more...It's strange for a court to appoint an expert witness? Regarding other issues I had to do a google search for my own expert witness and those on the other side of the proceedings could either get their own expert witness to challenge mine (or throw in the towel). The towel was thrown in because facts are facts.

We're not doomed - we just need educating in how to deal with those so low they can walk under the belly of a snake standing up!
 
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Richard,

Where did you find you expert witness. just in case we have the opertunity to bring one in for ourselves.

To put you in the picture, the court asked the defendant to come up with three experts and then we could choose one of them and send an instruction. this was done and we sent our instructon to the court for approval but nothing was heard from the court for over 6 months. we then recieved a court order stating that a witness (that we had not chosen) had been apointed by the court! therefore acting in breach of their own previous court order!

Honestly i have never been in a situation like this before and i have totally lost faith in the coutny court system. even the judges dont read their own orders. its a joke. i would never go through this again.
 
R

Richard Andrews

Richard,

Where did you find you expert witness. just in case we have the opertunity to bring one in for ourselves.

To put you in the picture, the court asked the defendant to come up with three experts and then we could choose one of them and send an instruction. this was done and we sent our instructon to the court for approval but nothing was heard from the court for over 6 months. we then recieved a court order stating that a witness (that we had not chosen) had been apointed by the court! therefore acting in breach of their own previous court order!

Honestly i have never been in a situation like this before and i have totally lost faith in the coutny court system. even the judges dont read their own orders. its a joke. i would never go through this again.
Right!

An expert witness is independant - did not know you prior to being consulted, etc, etc...

A court appointed expert witness cannot be independent if they provide judgement between 2 parties - I would make an approach to Her Majesties Court Service whose remit is to deliver justice effectively and efficienly to the public... And if this is the wrong department they'll steer you on to the right path. Once your on the right path simply email your correspondence and seek for "advice".

To find your own expert witness simply do a google search for 'expert witness electrical works' and you'll have your expert witnesses to choose from.

The trouble with non-business customers is you can't claim back your expenses of winning, but at least they're tax deductable.

Richard
 
Richard,

This may seem like a silly question but i have looked at this 'experts' creditials and he is a member of many organisations ie RICS, Australian quantity surveyors, Chartered Inst of Arbitrators, Hong Kong Instit of Arbitrators,
CEDR, Expert Witness Inst, Academy of Experts, RICS expert Witness Registration Scheme, The Worship Company of Arbitrators.

But he is not M.I.E.E!

Would this make a difference? and if so why.
 
I have lost several jobs to our friends in the EU. I just can't compete as I have insurances, qualifications and the correct tooling to do the jobs in the most health and safety way. A friend of mine in the trade, when I asked him about rates quoted, "You're an Electrician, you did your time that is what they should be paying for." How right he is. Now I noticed that you can buy self install consumer units in B&Q. What next. Of course the other gripe is the companies that are setting up as intermediaries, they get people to contact them and they send out more that four to bid for the job after having charged each a fee.
 

Richard Burns

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
I have lost several jobs to our friends in the EU. I just can't compete as I have insurances, qualifications and the correct tooling to do the jobs in the most health and safety way. A friend of mine in the trade, when I asked him about rates quoted, "You're an Electrician, you did your time that is what they should be paying for." How right he is. Now I noticed that you can buy self install consumer units in B&Q. What next. Of course the other gripe is the companies that are setting up as intermediaries, they get people to contact them and they send out more that four to bid for the job after having charged each a fee.
Check the date on the posts, this was three years ago!
 
J

jase

Check the date on the posts, this was three years ago!

yeah, you couldnt get away with charging £70 per socket it todaays economic climate!!!
 
Going to get worse for the PAT Testers With this being sent out..
The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) is urging businesses to stop undertaking unnecessary electrical safety tests, which is costing low-risk businesses an estimated £30 million a year.
Following feedback from a government-commissioned report into the current state of health and safety legislation, the HSE has launched a revised guide on portable appliance testing.
The HSE claims that misleading advice and advertising by other businesses that offer electrical testing services are the main causes of the problem. It says that the law only requires electrical equipment to be maintained to prevent danger. It does not state that every item has to be tested, nor does it state how often the tests need to be performed.
True or are the back tracking.
 

Midwest

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Arms
Esteemed
I guess something as mundane as a socket doesn't really float the boat for the client. It’s like getting your car serviced, your cars comes out of the garage with no noticeable difference. Installing lighting for example, gives the customer that the feel good effect. My wife once asked me to fit a new socket to site a new lampshade or something similar. When she saw me knocking the wall about to get a new cable there, she nearly had a fit. She didn't realize the socket needed a new cable (hope she doesn't read this!), thought it just was screwed to the wall. People just don’t concieve the effect some minor things take.
Everybody wants things for the cheapest possible price.How many of us Google such & such, to get that last few pounds off our latest new toy/iphone/ipad etc.
Electrics have always been that, a neccity to make all those beautiful toys to work, flatscreens, power showers, playstations, bread makers etc, etc. Perhaps someone will invent a new power source!
When you still have the DIY stores selling CU’s, what chance have you got with pricing for a single socket?
 
S

Sparky198421

Been reading through this, its scary how much hourly rate varies £15 ph i would have no choice but to go back working for someone on that rate! The price for the socket was spot on, the amount of calls i get "my last electrician charged me half that" i think you can guess my reply :/
 
K

KFH

If you don't loose some you are not charging enough. If you loose them all you are charging too much.
 
O

oldtimer

Yep I tend to agree I give a cost and then I get What!!!! then I will get back to you then I do a job and I get told well a good service at a good price so why is that well not all customers are the same I am finding this out even more so as I stepped in for a guy who was semi retired and doing the job to keep busy only problem was he was cheap and he was busy so when he returned I thought great no more hassle then he retired so when his customers call he puts them on to me only thing is they expect to pay what they payed him 3 years ago so when they call I tend to take a sharp intake of breath be polite then say to myself some you win some you lose.

Also remember some customers will scream and shout at the cost then think nothing of spending £500 to let a garage give their pride and joy a wipe down with a oily rag and then convince them that it was a state of the art service.
 
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