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it was 20yrs ago since i did mine but need to ask was their any spec as to which cable to use i.e. a design load and theretical situations so as to give you a need to install 1.5 as 1.0mm would be underated, if not i would think its harsh but if so its a fail from me as in real life you could have created a fire hazard.had you got the size wrong.
 
Hi there thanks for the reply, Nope it didnt give any sort of Design Load it just had a picture of the DB and the size of the cable (1.5) coming out from the 6A Breaker, I can understand why I would be given a fail yet I do think it's very very harsh considering I got all the other sections right so its not really a case of me not being able to read diagrams it was just a simple and stupid error. I read somewhere that a student done exactly the same thing as me - Appealed against it and it got overturned + he passed, Still unsure on what to do next..
 
Appeal using your knowledge of design and cable sizing to argue your case explaining it was a simple error on your part but as for your installation in no way was unsafe nor did it contravene any regulations, showing this ability to express why you think its harsh with worded understanding of the reg's etc should put you on good ground for a successful appeal, just saying i think your decision is wrong may not cut the mustard. Either way you've nothing to lose as its already got a fail so go for it.
Its depends on their reply though to the points you make, they could argue that following; as with an on site electrical schematics it is essential for when others have designed it that your interpret it correctly, out in the field an error like this could be costly if not dangerous.
 
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Hey guys , Heres the problem iv had. A couple of days ago I completed my AM2 , during the functional tests everything worked fine and correctly so naturally I assumed everything was looking good however on recieving my results I failed on the Lighting and passed on everything else in that sub section (Installation). The reason behind the fail is I used 1.0mm instead of 1.5mm. Of course I am going crazy failing an 8hr 30 minute exam just for using the wrong size cable by 0.5 of a mm. My question is this - If I decided to appeal against the result do I have any case at all ? or would I just get knocked back as the drawing stated to use 1.5mm. All comments are welcome, thanks :).

I have to say, I agree with Darkwood, if you're given a 'spec' and you deviate from it, whether through a mistake or a decision, it can have consequences. In the real world, 1.0mm instead of 1.5 can mean an exceeded maximum volt-drop figure or a failed measured Zs value.
How much do you have to resit?
 
Thanks for the replies guys , Yeah im in 2 minds as to make an appeal or not .. And iv just got the Installation to do. Passed the Fault finding, Testing and on-line exam. Just highly frustrated that a stupid mistake it going to cost me to do the whole installation again ... another 8 and a half hours -.-. Have a feeling that if I appeal they will just mention the points both of you guys have made and not see it in my perspective.
 
Hate to sound harsh, but you were given a spec and the spec must be followed. I almost did the same with my using the sy install. But lucky I had enough time to rip it out!
 
On the silver lining of this think it lucky this was theoretical and just an annoying stepping stone.. out on the field it could of have cost you your job and at worse killed someone but im sure this error wont occur again anytime soon as its already left a nasty taste in your mouth.... good look !
 
Yeah its quite a big fault and indeed it won't be happening again :D, I probably won't persue it any further with appealing against it. Thanks for the help guys much appreciated :)
 
Jony you have learnt the hard way but to be honest you would have been told and be given all the information necessary to complete your composite without any mistakes. The information pack contains the specification for all sections of the assessments you carried out, and you are not the first to make elementary mistakes by not reading fully what is required.
He's another tip you can tell all "self assessment check list is now mandatory" no check list signed by all three parties no test.
 
No joy on the other thread, so I'll ask here:

I've got my AM2 in a week and I've been going over aspects of the assessment for the last few days so I hopefully don't make a silly mistake when the heat is on at the test centre.

I've been advised to just be calm and treat it as a normal install; i.e. if something is wrong, it isn't good enough. The main advice I've got is to just follow every aspect of the job spec that I will be given on the day, so obviously that is my plan. However, I haven't done much testing in the past and, as I still have a few days to prepare, I thought that I might as well ask the forum's contributors for some advice and pointers to help me out with a few things:

- Continuity: there is no box for R1 + RN on the testing form. Do I just make a note of it on the testing form, or is it not required in the AM2?

- On my insulation resistance test I plan to do a 'global' ten point test between all of the phases and earth from the mains switch. Obviously I have to remove all of the sensitive equipment, so I plan to put the light fitting's conductors, CO2 detector, RCD socket and the supply and load side of the motor into connectors and remove any neons. I also plan to switch off the spur on the S-plan heating system and I will then take the lowest readings I have for the global test and put them on the test form. However, I have been told to then connect the phase and neutral of the load side of the S-plan's spur and do an insulation resistance test through the heating system between those jointed cables and earth. This new value will be the S-plan's L-E insulation resistance value.

Will that be OK?

- I don't have any questions about Ze, PFC, and Zs (I plan to just summate this with my R1 + R2 values with Ze).

- Do I then do a phase rotation test? I'll be honest, I'm not sure how to do this. I remember once watching my boss do this test on a big chiller about a year ago and he just set the multitester to this function and put a three pronged lead on L1, L2 and L3. Is there a tester about that points in the right hand direction or something? How do I use this? Does this test come after all of the others I've mentioned as I can't see it listed in the On-Site Guide.

- RCD test and functional tests. Just remember to set the tester to 30mA and test both sides of sin wave at half, 1X, and 5X the tripping current. Do I record highest value here for each?

- Finally, I've heard different things from different people, but will I be required to check all my measured values comply with BS7671? If the answer is yes, I've found on the 'notes of schedule of test results' where to find these values in both the Regs and On-Site Guide.

How does all that sound? Have I missed anything required for the AM2? Never done fault finding before so that's gonna be a big stab-in-the-dark for me, so I'm just going to read as much as I can about faults in the next few days. The two-way lighting circuit is completely different to what I've always done in the past, but it seems pretty straight forward.

Any advice or help would be much appreciated. Cheers.
 
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Anyone?

Been reading as much as I can about testing over the last few days and I've found answers to most of my questions:

- Polarity of supply is just confirming that there are 400V between L1, L2, & L3, and 230V across everything else. As I'll be using a voltage indicator to prove live I suppose I might as well take advantage of the readings I get here. IMO, it makes sense to do phase rotation after PFC at the mains. Do I have to do pahse rotation on the DOL as well? If so, on the supply or load side?

- Still none-the-wiser on insulation resistance for everything, though. I've read that some people have passed just testing up to the S-Plan's spur, and others have had to test the whole thing at 500V whilst linking L and N together and testing between that and earth and using that as the value for L-E on the testing form. I'm going to put all sensitive equipment (CO2 detector, DOL, light fitting, S-Plan) in connectors on my global test whilst testing everything at 500V just to be sure, but I'm not quite sure how to go about testing the S-Plan.

- On the subject of the S-Plan, do I have to check continuity on all of the valves and such, or just the supply cables that I have installed?

Thanks for any feedback.
 
Well, no feedback but I passed it first time anyway and I'm now part of the 'fully qualified' club. If anyone has any questions about the AM2 then feel free to ask.

As an aside, I have regularly logged onto this forum for help and advice throughout my apprenticeship and I have almost always been helped out by someone. A massive thank you to all those who have answered questions and given sound advice! Cheers!
 
Well done Monks, onwards & upwards good luck for the future.:26:
ps who did you take it with?
 
Well done Monks,glad you passed mate, odd that no one came back with any feedback on your posts?
I come on here everyday and I didn't notice myself as I am on the lookout for AM2 stuff as I have mine soon...
Any tips you have would be great Monks....I've been on NET - National Electrotechnical Training | AM2 Assessment | FICA Assessment and noticed you need a checklist now, did have to provide this?
But good on you passing first time as I know a few lads who didn't...
 
Cheers.

Don't know if it is true but apparently the failure rate is quite high and, TBH, I thought something I did would bugger it up for me on the install but thankfully it only went down as a minor. I'll be honest: I haven't done much testing before (hence the questions on here) so I virtually memorised the testing procedures in the on-site guide. I paid for 2 refresher days at the college as well which really helped me prepare for the full test and inspection you have to do.

The main advice I'd give is to read the diagrams and spec that they give you as carefully as you can. They present them in such a way that it is really easy to make a silly mistake by not interpreting them properly. Also be very aware of how much time everything is taking. When I first went into the assessment room I thought I'd finish easily with loads of time to spare, but you'd be surprised how time-consuming some things can be, especially when you're under pressure. I'll cover some more areas in depth that might catch some people out below.

Safe Isolation:

KEY IN POCKET! Apparently one of the most common fails!

Install:

- Cleat your SWA and remember to banjo and fly lead it (one bloke next to me failed on this)
- Fix your FP cable with P clips or metal ties
- Where you need to join cables, instead of connector blocks only use push-fit connectors.
- The lighting circuit my group was given was totally different to what I've done before and it really makes you think - again, only wire to where it says on the spec as you'll have to figure out how they want the lights done on your assessment. Another bloke in my group failed on this as he realised his was wrong during his testing and then lost pretty much all of his testing time trying to figure out where he went wrong on the lighting circuit.
- The S-Plan was, IMO, quite easy. That said, I have done a lot of control panels in the past, so if you're not used to wiring diagrams then you'll really have to concentrate on this as I can imagine it could be easy to mess up.
- Remember to separate your data, FP and power circuits.

Testing:

- You get Guidance Note 3 and the On-Site Guide, so you can't really go wrong here if you're stuck. I personally revised every testing procedure as it is something I've not done much of and I didn't want to waste time during the assessment reading up how to do each test.
- Remember to disconnect sensitive equipment for insulation resistance.
- Remember to disconnect main earth for Ze and to reconnect it straight afterwards.
- Remember to double your PFC as the install is polyphase. Also, get a good grounding of what to write on all of your testing forms from the OSG.
- Remember to flick switches on the 2-ways and intermediate during continuity and insulation resistance to test through all strappers.
- You can also calculate Zs values by summating Ze+(R1+R2) to save time.
- It also wouldn't harm to know where to find acceptable values in BS7671 and the OSG if you need to check any readings. Another one of of the dudes in a bay next to me didn't realise a reading he had was unacceptable so the assessor asked him to check it in the Regs before he moved on with the rest of his tests.

Fault Finding:

Quite straight-forward. Found all mine through continuity and insulation resistance values and also by knowing how circuits and accessories work under fault-free conditions. You'll also need to know how the S-Plan works to find faults on it, but you're given various diagrams that make it quite simple to understand how each part of it works for the whole system to work properly.

Muliple Choice Exam:

There is a bank of something like 600 questions and you get 30 of them at random. I had to use the OSG, BS7671, and Part P for a lot of it, but some of it should be stuff you learned at college that they are just checking that you know.

____

I handed the checklist in on the first day of the refresher. Think it is only for the tutors to know what everyone's weaknesses are so they can go over them.

Hope that quick guide helps.
 
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They simulate 7 faults at random for everyone who takes the AM2 so you could get anything. You get a fault scenario to start with and from that you can pretty much guess what the fault is before you start using testing equipment. For example, one of mine was something like: 'The customer has reported that they get an electric shock whenever they touch the water stop tap'; instantly you suspect that the continuity is dodgy on the bonding so you can check it with a continuity tester. I can't remember the exact wording or which part of the system the fault was on, but another fault I had was something like: 'The customer has reported that the MCB for the S-Plan heating system trips whenever they turn on the timer'. I thought to myself that there may be a short circuit present, so I looked on the S-Plan's diagrams to see where in the circuit the timer was supposed to kick in and, sure enough, I had continuity between one of the phases inside of it and neutral.

I think all of the faults I had were various continuity, polarity and insulation resistance faults. If you find you are struggling on 1 fault I'd recommend leaving it and going back to it as you don't want to be wasing your time trying to get 1 right when you can crack on with another 6. Some of them are really easy and others can be a bit tricky. If you get a suspect reading, you can check it in the Regs and make a note of it as well. As with the testing part of the AM2, the assessor will also ask you questions as you go to gauge your knowledge; bear in mind that they're not trying to catch you out with anything, they're just making sure that you know why you're doing a certain type of test on the fault rig.

The faults are pretty straight forward if you think about the fault scenario logically and don't over-complicate it. Ask yourself why something might be tripping or what certain readings on the test instruments mean and also ask what those readings would do to the circuit when it is energised. TBH, I didn't find it too bad and it was the part of the AM2 I was worrying about most as I haven't done much fault finding in the past. There are loads of great threads on here covering fault finding both on site and in the AM2 so I'd recommend looking at them as well.

Good luck with it.
 

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