Discuss Another Bloody Cowboy, is this the worst CU change ever ??? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Came across this recent CU change yesterday while quoting to replace some Storage Heaters.
The builder had replaced the original Main CU and seperate Economy7 CU with the unit pictured below.
He crammed both sets of tails into the mainswitch by cutting some cores off of each tail and put a strip of wood between the tails as extra insulation.
He installed the 1mm lighting circuit on a 20A MCB, the 6mm Cooker circuit on a 63A MCB and put 2 seperate ring circuits on 1 32A MCB.
Obviously no testing or certificates, he even mounted the new CU lower than the old ones so that now the door hit it when fully opened.
I advised the customer to contact LABC and Trading Standards and wait to see any results.

I have now replaced this with 2 seperate CU's, fully tested and certificated ( 2 IR faults found ) .

The Cowboy's skills are not limited to electrics as he also stuck some ceramic floor tiles down in the bathroom and kitchen with NO NAILS which have now started to crack and the laminate floor in the bedroom has been laid so tight to the wall that it is now rising in the middle.


CU2.jpgCU1.jpg
 
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darkwood

Mod
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
B.Hodge and S. Carper Electrical..... seen their work many times, this is quite neat ;)
 
D

drew35

So the storage heaters were live 24-7 after the csu change? Would have been a warm house in the winter, or whenever the fire started!
How do people get taken in so easily? There is so much information out there to help people not get caught out by a cowboy, that they must actively seek them out?
 
A

axel132132

Spose cuda been worse without the wood inbetween L + N tails :p
 
S

Swicade

Dont suppose the builder does outside lighting aswell does he?.....about the same sort of qaulity....
 
A

alarm man

Came across this recent CU change yesterday while quoting to replace some Storage Heaters.
The builder had replaced the original Main CU and seperate Economy7 CU with the unit pictured below.
He crammed both sets of tails into the mainswitch by cutting some cores off of each tail and put a strip of wood between the tails as extra insulation.
He installed the 1mm lighting circuit on a 20A MCB, the 6mm Cooker circuit on a 63A MCB and put 2 seperate ring circuits on 1 32A MCB.
Obviously no testing or certificates, he even mounted the new CU lower than the old ones so that now the door hit it when fully opened.
I advised the customer to contact LABC and Trading Standards and wait to see any results.

I have now replaced this with 2 seperate CU's, fully tested and certificated ( 2 IR faults found ) .

The Cowboy's skills are not limited to electrics as he also stuck some ceramic floor tiles down in the bathroom and kitchen with NO NAILS which have now started to crack and the laminate floor in the bedroom has been laid so tight to the wall that it is now rising in the middle.


View attachment 13766View attachment 13767
it might be the electrical version of the mini competition

images.jpg
 
What a loser! Wasting all those MCB's. He could have put the rings in with the cooker and the lighting and storage heaters in another one leaving plenty of space for future additions :wink_smile:
 
M

MKS

Sad to say but unfortunately a sign of the times, where anyone and everyone are trying to make savings! Some don't realise what dangers lie ahead until it is too late :-( The guy should be vapoursised as someone else pointed out :-(
 
D

dim_bulb

I wonder how much percentage electrical work is generated by having to rectify cowboys stuff ups in the uk?

Post 9 - yeah women's outside lights no earth and choke block jobby (another thread and pics)
 

rich.250

-
Arms
In the words of a builder.....
Works dun it!!

People like this need removing from the planet!
Hopefully in a fire they caused..... ;)
 
Full marks for effort. Must of been a right mission to ram that lot in. I had builders con unit similar to this a couple of years ago, as usual nobody wanted to know when the house owner contacted them. LABC were only interested in getting him to get someone else to issue certificates...
 

tony mc

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Arms
If you do not cut off a few strands how do you go about getting the two 25mm cables into the isolator !:bucktooth:






Joking aside what was the white tape or whatever it is covering the line on the breaker switched off !
 

plugsandsparks

-
Arms
Esteemed
Well, not even going to put my tongue in cheek and ask if it worked. Jesus, that is amazing and simply has to go in the latest mag from NIC or NApit etc.

BTW did the cover actually fit ?

Deserves an award of some type...
 
A

Adam W

I think this is a good example of why part P is counter-productive - cash-strapped householders would rather pay a hundred quid in cash to help out a friend of a friend or the nice builder with kids to feed, than pay 4 times that to some obstructive electrician who keeps going on about how all of a sudden you need rcd protection and the bonding which has been there since you moved in now isn't good enough any more, wastes time faffing about with testing and wants you to pay a premium for a load of red tape, much of it going to the government anyway.

Some of this might seem reasonable if you're getting a perfectly competent commercial/industrial/retired electrician who sometimes does private jobs at the weekend and to whom it doesn't make financial sense to be a member of a scheme, but in this case I agree that this builder guy should be taken outside and shot.
 
S

SPARTYKUS

The thing is, he's probably looked at it (the bloke that did it), on here, and had a laugh with his mates. he'll never have to answer for it.

Still, a few hundred for someone a bit more ethical !
 
A

alarm man

I think this is a good example of why part P is counter-productive - cash-strapped householders would rather pay a hundred quid in cash to help out a friend of a friend or the nice builder with kids to feed, than pay 4 times that to some obstructive electrician who keeps going on about how all of a sudden you need rcd protection and the bonding which has been there since you moved in now isn't good enough any more, wastes time faffing about with testing and wants you to pay a premium for a load of red tape, much of it going to the government anyway.

Some of this might seem reasonable if you're getting a perfectly competent commercial/industrial/retired electrician who sometimes does private jobs at the weekend and to whom it doesn't make financial sense to be a member of a scheme, but in this case I agree that this builder guy should be taken outside and shot.
why is it just commercial/industrial sparks are competent and di's are qualified,scheme or not theres plenty of sparks do cash jobs,always has been always will be,part p wont change a thing never has never will,cant see the problem with a spark paying a fortune in tax & ni doing a bit for cash,id call it a rebate..until a spark (not a di) gets hauled up in front of the beak for doing work and not being part p and gets prosecuted(wont happen) nothing will change regards part p and cash jobs
 
G

Guest111

typical of some builders,once I had one who asked for a price for a job labour only then turned up with a load of secondhand gear,some of it covered in paint saw him once buying second hand gear from car boot sales.needless to say I walked away from it.but builders seem to be wanting maximum profit with minimum outlay and the electrics seem to be the favourite area for savings.
 

rich.250

-
Arms
I know of a local spark who was prosecuted for not being part p!
They called him incompetent! Mind you I do think he had done any updates in 30years since his apprenticeship! Lol.

Yet builders get away with this crap, that is far far far worse!
Makes no sense.
IMO part p needs higher entry requirements, but that's another story lol
 
S

sparky-s-w

i say well done to him, no mean feat cramming 2 lots of tails into such a small board.
could do with him next time im dressing a 90mm armoured.

send it to proffesional electrician magazine.
 
A

alarm man

I know of a local spark who was prosecuted for not being part p!
They called him incompetent! Mind you I do think he had done any updates in 30years since his apprenticeship! Lol.

Yet builders get away with this crap, that is far far far worse!
Makes no sense.
IMO part p needs higher entry requirements, but that's another story lol
have you got a link for that,part p needs scrapping simple as..
 
S

Silly Sausage

why is it just commercial/industrial sparks are competent and di's are qualified,scheme or not theres plenty of sparks do cash jobs,always has been always will be,part p wont change a thing never has never will,cant see the problem with a spark paying a fortune in tax & ni doing a bit for cash,id call it a rebate..until a spark (not a di) gets hauled up in front of the beak for doing work and not being part p and gets prosecuted(wont happen) nothing will change regards part p and cash jobs
I think the simple answer to that is, to be comm/ind, you invariably have to go through the interview/references process etc., whereas, it appears to me, virtually anyone can walk into someones house claiming to be an electrician, and by the looks of it, do whatever (and charge) they like.
 
S

sparks1973

well...pics say it all really dont they....would be worth sending em in to PE for the `caught on camera` pages...
 
A

Adam W

I think the simple answer to that is, to be comm/ind, you invariably have to go through the interview/references process etc., whereas, it appears to me, virtually anyone can walk into someones house claiming to be an electrician, and by the looks of it, do whatever (and charge) they like.
Just to add to that I think to a certain extent the commercial & Industrial sectors are 'self-policing', ie the person responsible for employing the electrical contractor is paid to know what they're doing and should be able to sniff out the cowboys, thereby starving them of work and forcing them out of business.
In the domestic sector however the cowboy could be and are preying on the most vulnerable - the elderly, mentally ill, and just poorly informed people. Part P seems to have been implemented partly to protect these people.
This could be why on 'Matt Alright BBC Rogue Traders' we hear of 'fly-by-night' contractors (often roofing and driveways) ripping off domestic customers, but you never hear of them turning up on a site and ripping off the main contractor.

Speaking of 'Matt Alright BBC Rogue Traders' and misappropriating funds, that guy who rides the bike in Rogue Traders recently got 12 weeks for benefit fraud.
How ironic.
 
P

parkerbloggs

No problem- if cover doesn't fit, a bit of pruning is needed. Reach for the secateurs!!!
 
S

Silly Sausage

Adam, exactly, if you did work like this you'd get a severe ballocking as min, then be down the road if you carried on.
Domestics, they can just move on from one rubbish job to the next, and so it seems, get away with it.
 
S

SPARTYKUS

Adam, exactly, if you did work like this you'd get a severe ballocking as min, then be down the road if you carried on.
Domestics, they can just move on from one rubbish job to the next, and so it seems, get away with it.
Yes.

If someone did work like that on my behalf, they'd get the bullet
 
Trouble is, as already pointed out, old Mrs Jones doesn't know any better, and trusts her qualified tradesman. How do these guys even sleep at night?
 
A

Adam W

Trouble is, as already pointed out, old Mrs Jones doesn't know any better, and trusts her qualified tradesman. How do these guys even sleep at night?
Chances are 'old Mrs Jones' has shopped around and in the absence of any other method of measurement has gone with the cheapest.
 
I have just been fortunate enough to work for a nice old Lady who got 2 quotes (one was mine), then went with me (the dearer quote) because she couldn't see how the other guy could do the work for the price he quoted. I have no idea how he could have done it either, as there was a lot of work involved and I went over time as it was, to get it done to a high standard. Needless to say, she is very pleased.
 
S

sparks1973

typical of some builders,once I had one who asked for a price for a job labour only then turned up with a load of secondhand gear,some of it covered in paint saw him once buying second hand gear from car boot sales.needless to say I walked away from it.but builders seem to be wanting maximum profit with minimum outlay and the electrics seem to be the favourite area for savings.
because their just Turnips Phil....and thats what it is......
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
It would be good to think that customers had 'Values' too..Why is it always the tradesmen that have to have 'Values' ? it really ****es me off..some num nut gets two quotes one is half the other, hello ? a lot of the time I have no fkn sympathy for these idiots, get Billy Bob Builder in to do the leccy..when your kids are toast have a party on what you have saved !
J
 
A

Adam W

It would be good to think that customers had 'Values' too..Why is it always the tradesmen that have to have 'Values' ? it really ****es me off..some num nut gets two quotes one is half the other, hello ? a lot of the time I have no fkn sympathy for these idiots, get Billy Bob Builder in to do the leccy..when your kids are toast have a party on what you have saved !
J
Because the electricians are the professionals and as such should maintain a professional decorum.
 
A

Adam W

What like the NIC lol..:)
J
Not really, no. I mean if a 'cowboy' rips off a little old lady it's primarily the cowboy's fault for ripping her off rather than the little old lady's fault for going for a cheaper price. If someone who trades in a professional capacity says they can do the electrics a customer shouldn't have any reason to doubt that.
I suppose if you wanted to crowbar the NIC into the equation you could argue that they should act as a regulatory body and tell customers to always use an NIC registered electrician, which as much as they would like isn't strictly the case since you can go with any of the 'competent persons' schemes, but as I've already said you could get a perfectly competent electrician who works for a company to do the work on a weekend and they wouldn't be 'Part P'.

If anything I think it is an issue for the JIB - if you want an electrician to work on your house ask to see his JIB card rather than which organisation the company he works for has paid a subscription to.
There's your controversial argument!
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
<snip>If anything I think it is an issue for the JIB - if you want an electrician to work on your house ask to see his JIB card rather than which organisation the company he works for has paid a subscription to.
There's your controversial argument!

Thats fine I would like one could you tell me how to go about it ? I hold C&G level 1-3, 17th ED etc I await with baited
J

 
T

topcat

Looks like you would have fun getting the case on this is a joke. I would not be able to sleep at night if I had done that.
LABC dont like to get involved in this sort of thing. Dont know why they send you to trading standards.
 
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Strima

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Arms
Esteemed
I'm thinking of setting up on my own, after seeing things like this why should I bother going through the hassle of applying into scheme membership when LABC and other agencies can't be bothered to deal with cowboys who carry out this kind of work?

Makes a mockery of the whole Part P system. :(
 

Jimmy Boy

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Arms
Unless the work is part of a bigger building project that also needs signing off I wouldn't bother mate, it's a fkn rip off, just do what the others do, except your will be done properly.
J
 
A

Adam W

<snip>If anything I think it is an issue for the JIB - if you want an electrician to work on your house ask to see his JIB card rather than which organisation the company he works for has paid a subscription to.
There's your controversial argument!

Thats fine I would like one could you tell me how to go about it ? I hold C&G level 1-3, 17th ED etc I await with baited
J

Print this form
http://www.ecscard.org.uk/pdfs/ECS003R_Application_Form_March_2012.pdf
fill it in and post it to them. If you haven't done the NVQ3 they'll give you a 'trainee' card, which is often controversial.

You need a different form if you're in Scotland. I don't think there's a special form for if your location is 'Lounge'.
 
A

Adam W

I'm thinking of setting up on my own, after seeing things like this why should I bother going through the hassle of applying into scheme membership when LABC and other agencies can't be bothered to deal with cowboys who carry out this kind of work?

Makes a mockery of the whole Part P system. :(
I suppose the point would be so that you have the 'luxury' of saying you're doing things 'by the book' rather than taking shortcuts, which could be a good selling point for the more discerning customers.
 
O

oldtimer

I have just been fortunate enough to work for a nice old Lady who got 2 quotes (one was mine), then went with me (the dearer quote) because she couldn't see how the other guy could do the work for the price he quoted. I have no idea how he could have done it either, as there was a lot of work involved and I went over time as it was, to get it done to a high standard. Needless to say, she is very pleased.
Yep just done a job this morning and the same situation
 

ipf

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
I'm thinking of setting up on my own, after seeing things like this why should I bother going through the hassle of applying into scheme membership when LABC and other agencies can't be bothered to deal with cowboys who carry out this kind of work?

Makes a mockery of the whole Part P system. :(
Makes some feel like packing it in. Mockery of the whole trade.
 
Yep just done a job this morning and the same situation
Just have to add, looked the other guy up who quoted and he is not part P registered. Extra circuit to outbuilding was required, amongst other things.... Not sure how he was going to notify this as I know the £180+vat for LBC was not in the price...
 
D

DurhamSparky

Little "Thief".....

rather find a greasy spoon in a dark dingy ally!!


oh and that cu is classic...!
 
A

Adam W

'Olympic' or not I wouldn't pay £7.49 for a fryup either, and I live in the south.

SPARTYKUS I grew up in Worcestershire and lived there for near enough the first 20 years of my life, often visiting Shropshire via the Severn Valley Railway, but I can honestly say I've never heard of these "Potato farls" of which you speak.
 
J

johnomac

Adam, you have to try a potato farl or potato bread, fried ulster invention to get the fat round your heart and keep it warm in the winter... not to be missed along with the soda bread.
And yes one of the worst cu`s iv`e seen, the person who done it must have known it hense the wood at the incomers,,,
 
S

sparks1973

Adam, you have to try a potato farl or potato bread, fried ulster invention to get the fat round your heart and keep it warm in the winter... not to be missed along with the soda bread.
And yes one of the worst cu`s iv`e seen, the person who done it must have known it hense the wood at the incomers,,,
wood at the incomers....hmm...he must have been headbutting it in frustration...and left some of his brain lodged there.....:banghead:
 
R

rjsv

how can people sleep at night after doing work like this. why even try
 
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