Another Nagy production covers controversy subject

[Risteard]

In a previous video about a year ago he finished off a half complete builders rewire and took on the job as his own work....

He is happy and so is his cps by the looks

I am pretty sure I can say definitively that they most certainly would not be happy with it. The reality is that Warwick House have better things to do than watch his videos all day, so it probably hasn't come to their attention. However I would expect that they would act upon it were it reported to them.

 

[Risteard]

3rd party certification to one side, there should be a system in place to officially resolve such situations. Electricians pass away, companies go under or are in dispute, i.e. there is a good reason why the original installer cannot finish or sign the certificate.

In the south of Ireland there is a procedure in place to deal with precisely these types of issues so that a DSO supply can be obtained.

This is the Change of Contractor procedure. The person responsible for the installation applies for a Change of Contractor to RECI with the details of the installing contractor and the new contractor. If the details of the installing contractor are filled in as "unknown" then the Report Illegal Works procedure is automatically invoked.

RECI will contact the original contractor to establish why the job has not been completed/certified, and will then authorise the new contractor to complete and certify the installation. Only after written permission has been received can works begin.

The new contractor will complete the job, carry out Pre-Connection Tests and send an Inspection Request form to RECI. RECI will then send out one of their Inspectors to carry out initial verification again with the Registered Electrical Contractor (REC), and compare results to the Test Record Sheet.

If there are non-compliances then an additional Inspection will be mandated. Each of these Inspections will cost €250 (in addition to the contractor's time).

Once RECI are happy they will authorise the new contractor to submit a Completion Certificate for the job. Once the job has been energised by the DSO (ESB) then the contractor will return to carry out Post-Connection Tests.

It is a serious disciplinary offence (which can result in dismissal/de-registration) to certify anyone else's job without specific written authority from RECI.

 

[JK-Electrical]

I personally wouldn't even contemplate signing-off on work that I myself hadn't designed and installed. In my view, the risk far outweighs any gain, particularly so when the wiring that can be seen has been badly done. In such circumstances I'd be deeply concerned about the wiring that cannot be seen. I would walk away.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I know this is a bit of a contentious subject but I honestly don’t have any issue with what TN is doing.
There must be 100s , possibly 1000s of jobs just like this come up every year.
Half finished work is pretty common.
If TN is confidence in his own abilities to assess and finish a half finished job then all good

 

[Risteard]

I know this is a bit of a contentious subject but I honestly don’t have any issue with what TN is doing.
There must be 100s , possibly 1000s of jobs just like this come up every year.
Half finished work is pretty common.
If TN is confidence in his own abilities to assess and finish a half finished job then all good

Why should he be exempt from the NICEIC Rules for Enrolment that the rest of us have to adhere to though?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Why should he be exempt from the NICEIC Rules for Enrolment that the rest of us have to adhere to though?

You honestly think they will kick everyone out who finishes off a half complete job ?

 

[Risteard]

You honestly think they will kick everyone out who finishes off a half complete job ?

Frankly they should kick people out who don't adhere to the rules. Natural justice demands it.

The issue is with him certifying someone else's work. As I alluded to, he could report on the existing wiring and only certify his own work.

 

[Nigel]

His approach to safe isolation and the most basic of health and safety leaves a lit to be desired also.

 

[Bellendian]

Frankly they should kick people out who don't adhere to the rules. Natural justice demands it.

The issue is with him certifying someone else's work. As I alluded to, he could report on the existing wiring and only certify his own work.

I spoke to my scheme about this. Their policy was straightforward. You sign the paperwork, you take ownership in whole. Therefore 3rd party doesn't come into it.
But the onus is on you the contractor to satisfy yourself that all is well before taking on that responsibility.
As had been mentioned earlier, plenty of firms out there with labourers pulling in cables. Cheap labour don't sign it off, the QS does, and by doing so takes responsibility for ensuring that the work has been adequately supervised and standards are maintained.
I don't believe it's an issue of breaking rules, more one of being very aware of what you are taking on.
If your business model was doing part P notifications for any old character for a fee, without doing any work on the install whatsoever then I guess you might come unstuck....eventually.

 

[static zap]

We just need parts that time stamp themselves ,for
those bad Friday afternoon decisions....
(Extra-inspection required) .

 

[Midwest]

In the south of Ireland there is a procedure in place to deal with precisely these types of issues so that a DSO supply can be obtained.

This is the Change of Contractor procedure. The person responsible for the installation applies for a Change of Contractor to RECI with the details of the installing contractor and the new contractor. If the details of the installing contractor are filled in as "unknown" then the Report Illegal Works procedure is automatically invoked.

RECI will contact the original contractor to establish why the job has not been completed/certified, and will then authorise the new contractor to complete and certify the installation. Only after written permission has been received can works begin.

The new contractor will complete the job, carry out Pre-Connection Tests and send an Inspection Request form to RECI. RECI will then send out one of their Inspectors to carry out initial verification again with the Registered Electrical Contractor (REC), and compare results to the Test Record Sheet.

If there are non-compliances then an additional Inspection will be mandated. Each of these Inspections will cost €250 (in addition to the contractor's time).

Once RECI are happy they will authorise the new contractor to submit a Completion Certificate for the job. Once the job has been energised by the DSO (ESB) then the contractor will return to carry out Post-Connection Tests.

It is a serious disciplinary offence (which can result in dismissal/de-registration) to certify anyone else's job without specific written authority from RECI.

My ‘reaction’ to your post, was more informative than like. That sounds a very thorough system, but it also sounds expensive and convoluted.

Something in between, would be more appropriate IMO. I wonder if that system is followed to the letter, in simpler domestic installs?

 

[Dustydazzler]

I've had this scenario a couple of times.
1st time I think I posted the q on here, but 1st fix was done, place boarded out and plastered. Wires in wrong places, all seemed sketchy. On that occasion said EICR is all I'd sign. They found another who would provide EIC and notify.
A more recent job, 1st fix 75% done, but I was able to see cable runs etc, on this occasion happy to issue EIC.
Can't see any point whatsover in pulling out cable, just to pull in new in the same place!

This

Judgment on each individual job in hand is required

If someone on here said to me

‘Lee I have partially wired this job but am going away can you finish it for me and you take on the job please’

Of course I would finish it and certification it on completion

If however Dave down the pub said

‘Lee I have completely rewired my gaff and put in a new consumer unit can you give me a certification for all the work’

I would be rather more cautious

 

[Risteard]

My ‘reaction’ to your post, was more informative than like. That sounds a very thorough system, but it also sounds expensive and convoluted.

Something in between, would be more appropriate IMO. I wonder if that system is followed to the letter, in simpler domestic installs?

What you need to understand is that almost all work in a domestic property is classed as "Restricted Electrical Works" (aka designated works), which means that it is a criminal offence for anyone other than a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC) to carry out that work. The penalties are (from memory) up to €15,000 fine and/or up to 3 years imprisonment.

I always insist upon the Change of Contractor procedure being followed before taking over a job. I would hope that all RECs do the same, and would expect any not following the RECI Rules of Registration to be severely dealt with. Otherwise we don't have a level playing field.

 

[Lister1987]

I can see TNs point, ultimately about consumer safety - if you've done your checks and got acceptable results, where's the issue?

I would like to think that if NICEIC kicked out TN and he took them to court, the fact that he was reducing exposure to risk (for the occupant), that would be grounds to win an appeal as it put people before profit, but then again money talks and BS walks

 

[Midwest]

What you need to understand is that almost all work in a domestic property is classed as "Restricted Electrical Works" (aka designated works), which means that it is a criminal offence for anyone other than a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC) to carry out that work. The penalties are (from memory) up to €15,000 fine and/or up to 3 years imprisonment.

I always insist upon the Change of Contractor procedure being followed before taking over a job. I would hope that all RECs do the same, and would expect any not following the RECI Rules of Registration to be severely dealt with. Otherwise we don't have a level playing field.

Does the system work, the Part P one over here, doesn’t seem to work?

 

[Risteard]

Does the system work, the Part P one over here, doesn’t seem to work?

Bear in mind that it is impossible to get a DSO supply without a Completion Certificate, which can only be supplied by a REC.

 

[Midwest]

Bear in mind that it is impossible to get a DSO supply without a Completion Certificate, which can only be supplied by a REC.

What about alterations & additions. I'm just curious.

 

[Risteard]

What about alterations & additions. I'm just curious.

Obviously an installation which is already energised poses the danger of illegal work being carried out. However there has been an advertising campaign to alert homeowners that non-RECs are not registered, insured, audited or inspected and that they are breaking the law. Furthermore there have been a number of prosecutions including six months' imprisonment to focus minds.

 

[Toneyz]

But the onus is on you the contractor to satisfy yourself that all is well before taking on that responsibility.

I think you have summed it up well there.

 

[Toneyz]

It is a good point what happens when a contractor goes bust, dies or is suddenly taken seriously ill and can not return to work?