anything wrong with my wiring diagram? 2x PIRs lighting contol

[deridere]

Hi all, would you be able to confirm the attached diagram will do the described scenarios?
Original diagram
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fp4td333alpe335/800px-MultiPIRandLampCircuit%20Original.gif?dl=0
Amended

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vkbpfwp7atlc9vs/800px-MultiPIRandLampCircuit.gif?dl=0

I'm AudioVideo and Control engineer by trade, so go easy on me.


I've built a brand new front porch, and wife requires for lighting to be controlled by PIR. There will be a few mains GU10 down lighters in the porch, and one outside light. Also one ceiling mounted PIR inside the porch and one PIR outside to monitor the path to the house ( but can't see the front door). When wife comes home with shoping in her hands, outside PIR monitors the path and switches outside light ON, She opens the porch door, and inside PIR switches porch lights ON. And now she goes out to spend some of mine hard earned money: she enters the porch, and porch PIR switches BOTH inside and outside lights.

This last thing I'm not too sure about?

And can the manual switch force both lights ON? This switch is already in the house, with only 2 core and earth, and its under plaster.



Thanks

 

[telectrix]

as it is on the diagram, either PIR activating will switch both lights on. i'd leave it ast that save over complicating the issue.

 

[deridere]

Now I need tips of arguing this out with the wife!? She does not compromise normally, but I'll try!

 

[telectrix]

amended diagram , either PIR will still switch both lights on.

 

[deridere]

What should I change on the diagram to avoid the family drama over bloody Lights?

 

[Richard Burns]

A PIR is just a switch, it cannot control different lights when it switches, it can only turn on or off whatever it is connected to.
In order to have the manual switch turn on both lights whilst still having the PIRs control individual lights you would have to use a double pole relay, the switch operating the relay coil and so closing two sets of contacts, one to each light..

If you have the porch PIR on the ceiling so that it turns on the porch light when you enter from either direction and have a microwave sensor outside covering both the approach and inside the porch ( the microwave senor should work through glass, if you have glass, but not wood)) then as you approach the door the outside light comes on but the porch light does not until you open the porch door.
When leaving the house as you enter the porch the PIR turns on the porch light and the microwave sensor turns on the outside light.

Remove the wire immediately to the left of the words "switched live" and you are done.

 

[gnuuser]

Now I need tips of arguing this out with the wife!? She does not compromise normally, but I'll try!

word to the wise young one
argue not with the wife unless for dinner boiled hay you want for the next week

 

[telectrix]

ask her if she can iron 2 shirts at the same time, but 1 must be hot while the other is cold and they must both be hot at the same time. then you've cracked it. she can't do it, so you can't wire the PIRs to do what she wants.

 

[gnuuser]

you would need a dpdt switch hot to common c&e with b& f or a& d running off to the individual lamps
and pir's running to their respective lamps.
an spst switch wont work
this pdf may help

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth_new/ELECTRONICS/pdf/switches_demystified_assembly.pdf


please get a spark to do this for you for safety reasons

 

[Darkwood]

Can you show some of the sparkies on here how to draw a wiring diagram like yours... it clear, easy to follow and neat unlike some of the attempts we get on here :cool3:

 

[gnuuser]

will run geda and post the diagram as soon as i can

 

[gnuuser]

did not have much luck with geda as im using a touch pad mouse but did a quick draw and made it pdf

i actually prefer to use a drafting set to draw schematics (yeah i know im old)
also although i said dpdt in earlier post will work
a dpst switch will be better and is shown in the drawing

 

[Richard Burns]

did not have much luck with geda as im using a touch pad mouse but did a quick draw and made it pdf

i actually prefer to use a drafting set to draw schematics (yeah i know im old)
also although i said dpdt in earlier post will work
a dpst switch will be better and is shown in the drawing

The problem with that arrangement is that the OP has a single gang one way switch with a single twin and earth already in place as a manual override.
Other than that your idea would be a much better plan than using a DPST relay.

 

[gnuuser]

The problem with that arrangement is that the OP has a single gang one way switch with a single twin and earth already in place as a manual override.
Other than that your idea would be a much better plan than using a DPST relay.

Correct
a dual feed on the other hand can also be tandem switched but I would have the ckt breakers interlocked for safety
and the circuit would be labeled in numerous places

Its not something a diy should do thats why I recommended getting a spark to do it properly.

 

[deridere]

Thanks all for the input. I haven't managed to convince the wife on going for the simple solution. I've got a few Philips Dynalite bits and bobs in the van from job earlier this year, so decided to install a controler, and a few smart switches and PIRs. I'm currently testing my programing, but it looks like its working- took only 20 min programing!