Discuss Apprenticesxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

Pete999

-
Esteemed
Arms
Reaction score
17,081
Am I out of touch with modern trends? don't answer that if you can't be nice.
I see a lot of threads, enquiring about "how do I get an Apprenticeship" and "I'm an Adult Apprentice"
Have things changed? daft question really of course they have, with the onset of short courses etc, I'm not having a dig at short courses, honestly, I just cant understand, how Guys and Gals are searching pillar to post foe Apprenticeships.
There are those who will say "things have moved on Pete" but many of the larger Electrical Companies treat Apprenticeships as what they are, a commitment to someone who is willing to train, work for low wages for a period of time and eventually learn a trade, qualify properly, and become Electricians, you hear of people moving from one post to another for an Apprentice position.
Can someone please explain, to someone Old School, how the Apprentice thing works these days, because I'm lost.
I can understand people with commitments, trying the short course route, I don't personally like it but, it's the new wave I presume, I was indentured for 6 years, this must have changed, so will someone please explain to an on fart how it works these days, much appreciated in advance, just to ease my furrowed brow, and ease an Old timers worries. please.
 
the problem as i see it, pete is twofold.

1. companies are not prepared to train up apprentices when they can get cannon fodder on min. wage.

2. would be apprentices aren't willing to work for 4/5 years for peanuts when their mates are earning 3 x as much unskilled labour.
 
the problem as i see it, pete is twofold.

1. companies are not prepared to train up apprentices when they can get cannon fodder on min. wage.

2. would be apprentices aren't willing to work for 4/5 years for peanuts when their mates are earning 3 x as much unskilled labour.
As I expected Tel, doesn't give you much confidence does it, bout time HMG did something about it don't you think, sorry they have their heads buried in the trough, to worry about things like this, a sad reflection.
 
Pete, I can only speak for Scotland so here is my experience as I am putting a lad through it at the moment.

SECT run the training programmes and they are funded principally by the Scottish Government. SECT are part of SELECT.

My apprentice is 26 and a good lad. He is on below minimum wage for the 1st year regardless if he is at college or working with me. Pay rates are in line with SJIB. The course is 3 years but can extend to 4 if the apprentice struggles. It is run in blocks, roughly 4 or 5 weeks at a time and then he is back with me on the tools for 5 or 6 weeks. Alternating between the two. It's intensive and hard work at college. They are constantly assessed and I and the lecturers have access to an online software so I can see how he is doing and ask questions etc.

So far in year one he has done electrical theory, circuit designs and calls. Workshop wise tray, trunking and conduit. Metal and plastic. Last week it was plastic. Here's a pic of what he did in his bay.

Because the money is so bad I have helped him in other ways ;) He's expected to also buy all his own hand tools! I've gotten most of them for him and I have to say CEF and YESS have also supplied some stuff FOC.

Any questions, just ask....

Apprenticesxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx IMG_0990.JPG - EletriciansForums.net

Apprenticesxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx IMG_0990.JPG - EletriciansForums.net
 
I trained as a mature apprentice in my late 20s and i noticed the one trend among some of my younger classmates and eventually myself was that a lot of companies are willing to take you on but use you as cheap labour. One lad spent a year in one post and never did more than tidy up after the electrician, he wasnt ever invited to watch what he was doing or help. Companies will also stop you from going to college or meeting with assesors to go over portfolio work.
It can be quite demotivating when you realise that someone doesnt care about giving you a proper education. I was lucky in the sense that i did a lot of hard work in the evenings (being older gave me the understanding this was important) but id also book days off so i could attend college meetings on my own time eventually leaving the old company for my present who were very eager to have me as an electrician rather than an apprentice.

Mind saying this i do know of some young lads who wanna ride the easy train for the 4 years instead of putting the effort in.
.more fool them
 
I trained as a mature apprentice in my late 20s and i noticed the one trend among some of my younger classmates and eventually myself was that a lot of companies are willing to take you on but use you as cheap labour. One lad spent a year in one post and never did more than tidy up after the electrician, he wasnt ever invited to watch what he was doing or help. Companies will also stop you from going to college or meeting with assesors to go over portfolio work.
It can be quite demotivating when you realise that someone doesnt care about giving you a proper education. I was lucky in the sense that i did a lot of hard work in the evenings (being older gave me the understanding this was important) but id also book days off so i could attend college meetings on my own time eventually leaving the old company for my present who were very eager to have me as an electrician rather than an apprentice.

Mind saying this i do know of some young lads who wanna ride the easy train for the 4 years instead of putting the effort in.
.more fool them
Thanks for the replies, seems cash rules over quality.
 
I'm a 43yr old adult apprentice.
I agree that wages are rubbish in the 1st year & it makes it hard to pay the bills etc, especially as a single parent.
1st year is basically H&S, wiring circuits, conduit, trunking, gaining practical work experience etc.

This year we've so far covered the design, planning & overseeing.
We're currently working on science principles & will finish off this year with the 18th edition.

Next year is fault finding and testing & inspection - As I've already got my 2391-52 I just need to do the practicals, I've already started doing my NVQ portfolio sections & am hoping to save a year off the apprenticeship by getting this done asap.

4th year is technically for finishing your portfolio & then the AM2S test.

Personally, I think adult apprentices are better as they appreciate the opportunity given to them plus they work & study harder. Most of the young lads at college just want to mess around & don't always want to be there as they have been pushed into going by family etc.
 
I'm a 43yr old adult apprentice.
I agree that wages are rubbish in the 1st year & it makes it hard to pay the bills etc, especially as a single parent.
1st year is basically H&S, wiring circuits, conduit, trunking, gaining practical work experience etc.

This year we've so far covered the design, planning & overseeing.
We're currently working on science principles & will finish off this year with the 18th edition.

Next year is fault finding and testing & inspection - As I've already got my 2391-52 I just need to do the practicals, I've already started doing my NVQ portfolio sections & am hoping to save a year off the apprenticeship by getting this done asap.

4th year is technically for finishing your portfolio & then the AM2S test.

Personally, I think adult apprentices are better as they appreciate the opportunity given to them plus they work & study harder. Most of the young lads at college just want to mess around & don't always want to be there as they have been pushed into going by family etc.
Agreed ive managed to complete my apprentice in 2 of the 4 years i was given and thats only cause i was determined to.
 
I honestly think there should be more regulation on who can employ an apprentice. The guy I did mine with was very neat and thorough in his work but had no idea when it came to test and inspection. IR, continuity of RFC and RCD tests was about as far as he went.

I remember once getting sent to a house we had rewired to do the 'testing' because they had asked for a certificate and he was clueless and seemed to think that with my very limited experience of test and inspection from day release at college i was more able to carry out the task. I think I did an IR test and continuity of RFC because that was all i could remember and got outta there.

My new firm are great and got me updated to 17th Ed Amd 3 (I did my apprenticeship on 16th :eek:) shortly after starting and I've just done my 2391-52 practice assessment today :D. It baffles me looking back how he got away with never testing his work correctly and no one pulling it up, I assume he is still doing the same thing to this day.
 
In Scotland with SECT the apprentice must be employed by either an NICEIC or SELECT approved contractor to stop this happening.
 
I'm a 43yr old adult apprentice.
I agree that wages are rubbish in the 1st year & it makes it hard to pay the bills etc, especially as a single parent.
1st year is basically H&S, wiring circuits, conduit, trunking, gaining practical work experience etc.

This year we've so far covered the design, planning & overseeing.
We're currently working on science principles & will finish off this year with the 18th edition.

Next year is fault finding and testing & inspection - As I've already got my 2391-52 I just need to do the practicals, I've already started doing my NVQ portfolio sections & am hoping to save a year off the apprenticeship by getting this done asap.

4th year is technically for finishing your portfolio & then the AM2S test.

Personally, I think adult apprentices are better as they appreciate the opportunity given to them plus they work & study harder. Most of the young lads at college just want to mess around & don't always want to be there as they have been pushed into going by family etc.
That's Great to hear Loki, but are you doing this in employment, or off your own back, with College involvement? hope you don't mind me asking, not in any way to denigrate you endeavors, I'm just intrigued as to how the apprenticeship you are undertaking works, thanks for your reply.
 
That's Great to hear Loki, but are you doing this in employment, or off your own back, with College involvement? hope you don't mind me asking, not in any way to denigrate you endeavors, I'm just intrigued as to how the apprenticeship you are undertaking works, thanks for your reply.

Thats fine no worries asking.
I started originally on an EAL apprenticeship through Clarkson Evans but the i decided to leave half way through due to issues with them. I then couldnt get C&G to transfer my EAL exams over was just going round & round getting nowhere, so i then paid to do some C&G courses ie 2382-15, 2392-10 & the 2391-52. It took me just over a year to find another company to take me on as an apprentice & the training provider decided to put in at year 2. I still count myself lucky cos I was starting to feel low getting rejected by companies as soon as they found out my age. but looking positive Im getting there & I can see that AM2S getting closer lol
 
Thanks for all the replies, wish this could go further up the ladder to the powers that be, seems as though many employers treat an Apprenticeship as an excuse for cheap labour, and as for post 9 that just about sums it up, comments if you wish.
 
The company I served my time with often hired apprentices, used them as cheap labour for 4 years and then laid them off once they was qualified. Then hired another apprentice to replace.

Fair enough it got me my papers but I hated working for them a*seholes.
 
The company I served my time with often hired apprentices, used them as cheap labour for 4 years and then laid them off once they was qualified. Then hired another apprentice to replace.

Fair enough it got me my papers but I hated working for them a*seholes.
Most companies did that as if you stayed in employment for an extra day or week then the time of your apprenticeship counted towards your redundancy.

Did my time at EIL in Victoria, got laid off whilst working at the V+A when my time was up, a week later I was working on a site for Matthew Hall at London Wall.
 
Am I out of touch with modern trends? don't answer that if you can't be nice.
I see a lot of threads, enquiring about "how do I get an Apprenticeship" and "I'm an Adult Apprentice"
Have things changed? daft question really of course they have, with the onset of short courses etc, I'm not having a dig at short courses, honestly, I just cant understand, how Guys and Gals are searching pillar to post foe Apprenticeships.
There are those who will say "things have moved on Pete" but many of the larger Electrical Companies treat Apprenticeships as what they are, a commitment to someone who is willing to train, work for low wages for a period of time and eventually learn a trade, qualify properly, and become Electricians, you hear of people moving from one post to another for an Apprentice position.
Can someone please explain, to someone Old School, how the Apprentice thing works these days, because I'm lost.
I can understand people with commitments, trying the short course route, I don't personally like it but, it's the new wave I presume, I was indentured for 6 years, this must have changed, so will someone please explain to an on fart how it works these days, much appreciated in advance, just to ease my furrowed brow, and ease an Old timers worries. please.


I’m pretty sure here in Scotland an apprenticeship or an Adult apprenticeship is the only way of becoming an electrician. I have never know or heard of anyone doing the 4 week course, we read about all the times on this forum that happens down south. Same with this “ Domestic installer “ qualification. It’s been standard for years here that to sign domestic jobs off for the local council if you were not NICEIC OR SELECT registered to self certify, you had to show them your cscs gold card.
 
Real mix of ages and backgrounds on my apprentice course. Couple in late 40's, early 50's, good hand full in mid 30's.

Most of them were full time subs who were paying for the course themselves to get the quals they never achieved in the first place.

I can't comment on apprenticeships in the past but it seems they are still popular for many different people from many different backgrounds and experiences
 
Pete, I can only speak for Scotland so here is my experience as I am putting a lad through it at the moment.

SECT run the training programmes and they are funded principally by the Scottish Government. SECT are part of SELECT.

My apprentice is 26 and a good lad. He is on below minimum wage for the 1st year regardless if he is at college or working with me. Pay rates are in line with SJIB. The course is 3 years but can extend to 4 if the apprentice struggles. It is run in blocks, roughly 4 or 5 weeks at a time and then he is back with me on the tools for 5 or 6 weeks. Alternating between the two. It's intensive and hard work at college. They are constantly assessed and I and the lecturers have access to an online software so I can see how he is doing and ask questions etc.

So far in year one he has done electrical theory, circuit designs and calls. Workshop wise tray, trunking and conduit. Metal and plastic. Last week it was plastic. Here's a pic of what he did in his bay.

Because the money is so bad I have helped him in other ways ;) He's expected to also buy all his own hand tools! I've gotten most of them for him and I have to say CEF and YESS have also supplied some stuff FOC.

Any questions, just ask....

View attachment 47815

View attachment 47814


Tidy work
 

Reply to Apprenticesxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock