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Agree with a lot of what you say. I do believe that management consultants have grown fat on ripping off the public sector. As for sales, that’s quite a niche job and would argue that a good sales team is essential to any business. Put it this way, none running a business would have a business with some sort of sales input.
The government has just raised NI to raise extra funds for the NHS. Funny how they’re not looking at extra taxes on the high earners and those who salt away their millions off shore like the Rees Moggs of this world.
Management consultants very very rarely understand the business and products of the companies they provide their services to
As for sales there are very few good salesman but there are plenty that will sell you the undeliverable and rely on others to get them out of the mire
The best sales team are the guys on the ground doing a good job as that is what brings in the repeat business
I get your point, but think about the motor trade as an example. From a customer's perspective there are three main components to it: Sales, service and parts. Biggest bucks go to sales, service is next and parts a big drop down to very low wages. This is simply because car sales generate most income and parts generally the least - some garages almost resent having to operate a parts department, despite the fact it is essentail to the efficient running of their service department and could (if funded and managed properly) provide a reasonable income stream in itself.

Service and parts staff are essential - while salespeople encourage the public to part with their cash, they don't actually contribute anything useful. They sell aspiration and, while it's definitely a skill (and not a job I'd want to do), it's not a job that could be considered essential. If manufacturers made better quality cars, they'd sell themselves and salespeople would be redundant.

As for tax increases... rich people are, for the most part, happy to pay their taxes. What they aren't is happy to be treated as a cash cow, simply because they worked hard or were clever/lucky. Squeeze them too much and they won't take it - no different to anyone else, in that regard
The parts departments of most dealers lose out on price to the pattern parts market when it comes to servicing and repairs even the OEM parts supplied by the motor factors are more expensive at a dealers
 
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Management consultants very very rarely understand the business and products of the companies they provide their services to
As for sales there are very few good salesman but there are plenty that will sell you the undeliverable and rely on others to get them out of the mire
The best sales team are the guys on the ground doing a good job as that is what brings in the repeat business

The parts departments of most dealers lose out on price to the pattern parts market when it comes to servicing and repairs even the OEM parts supplied by the motor factors are more expensive at a dealers

Absolutely. That's why a good technical sales team is essential. Otherwise you get people promising the impossible just to get their commission.
 
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about the only thing labour party did anything useful was the creation of the NHS as a free service, but it's now been swamped by managers and consultants (financial, not medical) and non-productive top management. sack the lot and increase nurses' pay , and make layabouts on benefits that are above average wage pay for their prescriptions.
 
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That's the problem - if Labour don't behave how you want then they 'aren't proper labour'. It's like when people realised how much Neil Kinnock was earning as an MEP - ah, was never proper labour him.

And the 1970s?

Mmm, so - when exactly was the 'good labour' then? I'm struggling to see it to be honest
They left the working man in the dark with the power cuts and the pittance pay rises called wae restraint
 
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Management consultants very very rarely understand the business and products of the companies they provide their services to
As for sales there are very few good salesman but there are plenty that will sell you the undeliverable and rely on others to get them out of the mire
The best sales team are the guys on the ground doing a good job as that is what brings in the repeat business

The parts departments of most dealers lose out on price to the pattern parts market when it comes to servicing and repairs even the OEM parts supplied by the motor factors are more expensive at a dealers
good post, but these main agents (backed by manufacturers) are ripping customers off on servicing and parts. recently had a broken bowden cable on the boot release of 'er indoors car. cable is 15" long and a replacement should be under £20. nope. you have to buy the cable and the boot lock as a complete part, £124.00. when there's nothing wrong with the lock assembly.
 
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Absolutely. That's why a good technical sales team is essential. Otherwise you get people promising the impossible just to get their commission.
Technical sales is a whole different ball game, but I have met a lot of supposed tech sales people who are out of their depth and I knew more about their product than they did
 
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good post, but these main agents (backed by manufacturers) are ripping customers off on servicing and parts. recently had a broken bowden cable on the boot release of 'er indoors car. cable is 15" long and a replacement should be under £20. nope. you have to buy the cable and the boot lock as a complete part, £124.00. when there's nothing wrong with the lock assembly.
I think I would have been looking to fix that a bit cheaper than that
 
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it was the end cap of the outer broke. where it clips into the clamp. no maker of cables i found was able to repair.
 
FatAlan

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about the only thing labour party did anything useful was the creation of the NHS as a free service, but it's now been swamped by managers and consultants (financial, not medical) and non-productive top management. sack the lot and increase nurses' pay , and make layabouts on benefits that are above average wage pay for their prescriptions.
Problem is, despite what the Tories are saying (very unlike them to lie and mislead) the NHS will continue to be mismanaged and by default, we’ll end up with a private system as per the good old US of A.
 
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The parts departments of most dealers lose out on price to the pattern parts market when it comes to servicing and repairs even the OEM parts supplied by the motor factors are more expensive at a dealers

Generally they'll sell aftermarket parts at aftermarket 'retail' prices, which works for the parts dept as they may make a better margin than on OE parts, but franchised garages would generally only offer aftermarket parts for older cars or used vehicles that are from a different manufacturer than they represent.

I don't think anyone expects to receive the best parts prices when having their vehicle serviced at a main dealership. Those big sites have huge overheads and service business is attracted by convenience or having a dealer stamp in the service history.

The real point I was driving at was the fact that the least essential part of those businesses are most profiable and best paid - by 'least essential' I'm looking at this from a societal perspective, rather than that of a garage owner.
 
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Everyone knows that Blair was a ‘red Tory’.

Labour haven’t been looking out for their supposed core voter (the labouring person), the normal working person, for decades now.

The unions got too powerful at one time which killed old Labour and they switched to identity politics to try and compete with the Tories. Most people in this country want nothing to do with identity politics. They just want to be paid and taxed fairly and have good public services. They don’t care if the public service is full of balding white males or transsexual Muslims, they just want the job done properly.

Labour have missed their opportunity to pivot back to being a party for the working man or woman, they are full of lunatics now. We desperately need a proper opposition to the Tories in this country.
Agree re Blair. Compared to now, the Blair years look pretty good. Unfortunately he tied his shirt tails to the yanks re Iraq. Did a good job with Good Friday agreement. Tories are laughing at the moment as the opposition is split and fighting amongst itself. If you look very carefully in the media, when ever the government comes under threat the media seek to divert the blame. NHS failing … it’s the doctors fault. Police and Justice Failing …no mention of the fact that half the courts have been sold off, cuts in legal aid, barristers leaving in droves, cases being listed 2-3 years down the line then cancelled due to no barristers available. Trade issues with the EU… the EU’s fault….we came to an agreement, it’s not our fault if they stick to it.
 
nicebutdim

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Everyone knows that Blair was a ‘red Tory’.

Labour haven’t been looking out for their supposed core voter (the labouring person), the normal working person, for decades now.

The unions got too powerful at one time which killed old Labour and they switched to identity politics to try and compete with the Tories. Most people in this country want nothing to do with identity politics. They just want to be paid and taxed fairly and have good public services. They don’t care if the public service is full of balding white males or transsexual Muslims, they just want the job done properly.

Labour have missed their opportunity to pivot back to being a party for the working man or woman, they are full of lunatics now. We desperately need a proper opposition to the Tories in this country.

I didn't know that about Blair and thought he was 'blue Labour' 😄

Fully agree with your thoughts about the modern day Labour Party.

about the only thing labour party did anything useful was the creation of the NHS as a free service, but it's now been swamped by managers and consultants (financial, not medical) and non-productive top management. sack the lot and increase nurses' pay , and make layabouts on benefits that are above average wage pay for their prescriptions.

While Labour did indeed create the NHS, it was off the back of a policy formed and pushed by the prior Conservative government.

Problem is, despite what the Tories are saying (very unlike them to lie and mislead) the NHS will continue to be mismanaged and by default, we’ll end up with a private system as per the good old US of A.

I don't have confidence in either party where the NHS is concerned. We've had 10 years of hearing people tell us that the Tories are going to privatise the NHS, yet the vast majority of NHS privatisation, thus far, happened under the stewardship of the last Labour government.

While I don't support the idea of further privatisation, it is beyond all doubt that our health service is long overdue a complete overhaul. Is this something the average voter would entrust to the Labour Party? I certainly wouldn't as they seem to offer either madness or indecisivness.
 
nicebutdim

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Agree re Blair. Compared to now, the Blair years look pretty good. Unfortunately he tied his shirt tails to the yanks re Iraq. Did a good job with Good Friday agreement. Tories are laughing at the moment as the opposition is split and fighting amongst itself. If you look very carefully in the media, when ever the government comes under threat the media seek to divert the blame. NHS failing … it’s the doctors fault. Police and Justice Failing …no mention of the fact that half the courts have been sold off, cuts in legal aid, barristers leaving in droves, cases being listed 2-3 years down the line then cancelled due to no barristers available. Trade issues with the EU… the EU’s fault….we came to an agreement, it’s not our fault if they stick to it.

They really don't.

Blair inherited a booming economy and funded his ongoing electoral success to the detriment of that. Public/Private Partnerships that have been a huge burden on public services. Changes to health care that meant some huge salaries for considerably less work. Blair bought popularity and deftly, but belatedly handed over to Brown when he knew the good times were coming to an end.

The Belfast Agreement should have been the jewel in his crown but, while it was a significant achievement, it subsequently transpired that many underhand deals were done that (had they been known about) many fewer would have voted in favour of and no agreement would exist.

I do agree that (Brexit aside) the Labour party are currently responsible for Conservative successes. Where they not in complete disarray, there's every chance that the Tories would have to be much more careful.
 
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The problem with the NHS is that it thinks it is free for allcomers from around the world, actually charging health tourists for treatment is an alien concept to some working in the NHS, most other countries in the world if you are lucky you might get basic treatment until you can prove that you can pay but in the UK they walk in get treated and when it comes to payment they shrug their shoulders and walk out and fly home
I wonder how many millions that costs the NHS
 
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They really don't.

Blair inherited a booming economy and funded his ongoing electoral success to the detriment of that. Public/Private Partnerships that have been a huge burden on public services. Changes to health care that meant some huge salaries for considerably less work. Blair bought popularity and deftly, but belatedly handed over to Brown when he knew the good times were coming to an end.

The Belfast Agreement should have been the jewel in his crown but, while it was a significant achievement, it subsequently transpired that many underhand deals were done that (had they been known about) many fewer would have voted in favour of and no agreement would exist.

I do agree that (Brexit aside) the Labour party are currently responsible for Conservative successes. Where they not in complete disarray, there's every chance that the Tories would have to be much more careful.
Got to agree the GP contract less hours and much more pay, the reason why it has been so difficult to get a GP appointment for over a decade

You forgot to include Brown's sale of the gold reserve when the market had fallen to it's lowest in years
 
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The problem with the NHS is that it thinks it is free for allcomers from around the world, actually charging health tourists for treatment is an alien concept to some working in the NHS, most other countries in the world if you are lucky you might get basic treatment until you can prove that you can pay but in the UK they walk in get treated and when it comes to payment they shrug their shoulders and walk out and fly home
I wonder how many millions that costs the NHS

There is a significant cost to this but, having once seen the numbers (which I can no longer remember), it's much less than one might imagine and far from the greatest drain on NHS resources. Problem with spending on health is that no one ever seems to be accountable and services/supplies are tendered at eye watering rates.
 
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friend of mine used to be a hospital porter. one day he saw 2 nursed with 10 bin bags labelled incinerate waste, taking them to the incinerator.out of curiosity, he asked what was in the bags. the reply was, they've sent us all these new dressings, gowns , and equipment. we got no storage space for them, .
 
FatAlan

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Got to agree the GP contract less hours and much more pay, the reason why it has been so difficult to get a GP appointment for over a decade

You forgot to include Brown's sale of the gold reserve when the market had fallen to it's lowest in years
Might that also be down to a lack of GP’s?
Appreciate that there is a total lack of opposition at the moment but is the general consensus that 10 years down the line the Tories are doing a good job?
 
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There is a significant cost to this but, having once seen the numbers (which I can no longer remember), it's much less than one might imagine and far from the greatest drain on NHS resources. Problem with spending on health is that no one ever seems to be accountable and services/supplies are tendered at eye watering rates.
From what I've seen all the numbers they have are not by their own admission that accurate. I remember a hospital programme a few years ago that highlighted health tourism 1 patient ran up a £600k bill and another £300k this hospital over the course of a month the total was pushing towards £2m that they knew of mainly because of the level of treatment needed creating large bills the guy chasing payments had a pile of paperwork but on his own was struggling to recover even a small fraction of what was owed
 
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Agree with a lot of what you say. I do believe that management consultants have grown fat on ripping off the public sector.
You really do not understand what's going on do you...

It might help if you try to park your personal prejudices to one side... you might then have an outside chance of seeing reality.

I know several 'management consultants' who have worked in the public sector, so have knowledge of this area. The reason why they are employed is NOT so that their recommendations are heeded... it's so that they department concerned can say that they have tried to reform. However, the notion that the public sector can be reformed is pure utopia !! They are beset by a culture that has established itself over generations... it won't be changing any time soon !

I know of a recent project for part of the NHS... if the changes that were recommended were implemented, there would be a saving of several million pounds per year... the fee for this piece of work was a few tens of thousands of pounds. Of course, the changes never happened. The NHS, like most of the public sector is un-reformable.

So... blaming 'management consultants' is simply wrong... I suggest you talk to a few of them first, before spouting nonsense !!
 
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From what I've seen all the numbers they have are not by their own admission that accurate. I remember a hospital programme a few years ago that highlighted health tourism 1 patient ran up a £600k bill and another £300k this hospital over the course of a month the total was pushing towards £2m that they knew of mainly because of the level of treatment needed creating large bills the guy chasing payments had a pile of paperwork but on his own was struggling to recover even a small fraction of what was owed
I think it's Hillingdon Hospital in West London that tops the bill for health tourism... being the closest hospital to Heathrow Airport. There was a documentary on a few years ago... it's normal practice for Nigerians (and others) to fly to the UK specifically for difficult childbirths... ones that would cost them money back in Nigeria.

They are well schooled in how the system works... the magic phrase is "I intend to make the UK my permanent home"... once uttered, it's all free !!

I watched one of those Emergency Hospital programmes the other week... there was a Chinese girl in A&E who was knocked off her bicycle I think. In broken English, she kept trying to tell the staff that she had insurance and they should look in her bag for it... but they all had genuine confusion as to why she was talking about insurance... to them it was an anathema ! It's all "free" in the UK !! Come in... everyone... enjoy a health service paid for by the hardworking tax payer !!
 
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Labour haven’t been looking out for their supposed core voter (the labouring person), the normal working person, for decades now.
The problem for the Labour Party... is that their politics is based around the old class system of Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. But this is woefully out of date and doesn't really apply in the modern society. Whilst you could still divide up society into 'classes' if you wanted (though not sure why you'd want to), they are not the groups of old.
 
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So which civil servants have a cushy life then Tel? All I see is under investment, antiquated IT systems, lack of staff and those that are left are trying to manage mpossible workloads made even worse by increased bureaucracy imposed by politicians due to the latest media outcry over the latest high profile public service cock up most likely caused by lack of resources. Still, work a 12 hr shirt in A&E sounds pretty cushy.
Yet another example of your personal prejudices clouding reality !!

There is MASSIVE financial investment in the state sector... the problem is that the monies are squandered.

Most government IT systems that I have the misfortune to use are very very poor... they will have been purchased at the highest price too !!

Most of the state sector (and that includes the NHS and all Quangos) are largely "job clubs".

It's true that politicians pander to the left wing media... and this needs to stop !!
 
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That’s another example of personal prejudices. BBC is now government controlled and hardly mentions the word Brexit. The Sun, Express & Mail all peddle the right wing agenda and stir up Xenophobic hatred against Johnny foreigner coming over hear and stealing our jobs or anything that doesn’t hark back to the great days of the British Empire. Is it the public sectors fault that it is ripped off by the private sector? It’s one big gravy train done in collusion with those in control of the purse strings and their mates in the private sector.
 
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The problem for the Labour Party... is that their politics is based around the old class system of Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. But this is woefully out of date and doesn't really apply in the modern society. Whilst you could still divide up society into 'classes' if you wanted (though not sure why you'd want to), they are not the groups of old.
Agree with that 100%👍
 
telectrix

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That’s another example of personal prejudices. BBC is now government controlled and hardly mentions the word Brexit. The Sun, Express & Mail all peddle the right wing agenda and stir up Xenophobic hatred against Johnny foreigner coming over hear and stealing our jobs or anything that doesn’t hark back to the great days of the British Empire. Is it the public sectors fault that it is ripped off by the private sector? It’s one big gravy train done in collusion with those in control of the purse strings and their mates in the private sector.
the only goverment control of the BBC is forcing us to pay a licence fee for (some) things we don't want to watch. at least with sky, although a rip off, you only pay if you want it, and nobody forces you to pay.
 
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BBC is now government controlled
I'm starting to think that you're just winding us all up !

The BBC is not controlled by the current government, by previous governments, maybe... it's stuff full of lefties !!! For example, until recently, James Purnell was the Director of Strategy... he's an ex Labour front bencher !! You really need to do more research before posting your political views...
 
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The problem for the Labour Party... is that their politics is based around the old class system of Working Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. But this is woefully out of date and doesn't really apply in the modern society. Whilst you could still divide up society into 'classes' if you wanted (though not sure why you'd want to), they are not the groups of old.
The coverage of the Labour party conference was going back a bit in time with one delegate referring to blue and white collar workers
 
FatAlan

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I think it's Hillingdon Hospital in West London that tops the bill for health tourism... being the closest hospital to Heathrow Airport. There was a documentary on a few years ago... it's normal practice for Nigerians (and others) to fly to the UK specifically for difficult childbirths... ones that would cost them money back in Nigeria.

They are well schooled in how the system works... the magic phrase is "I intend to make the UK my permanent home"... once uttered, it's all free !!

I watched one of those Emergency Hospital programmes the other week... there was a Chinese girl in A&E who was knocked off her bicycle I think. In broken English, she kept trying to tell the staff that she had insurance and they should look in her bag for it... but they all had genuine confusion as to why she was talking about insurance... to them it was an anathema ! It's all "free" in the UK !! Come in... everyone... enjoy a health service paid for by the hardworking tax payer !!
I understand that in 2019 the Tories stated that people on a work, study or family visa pay at £400 surcharge
I'm starting to think that you're just winding us all up !

The BBC is not controlled by the current government, by previous governments, maybe... it's stuff full of lefties !!! For example, until recently, James Purnell was the Director of Strategy... he's an ex Labour front bencher !! You really need to do more research before posting your political views...
Boris Johnson appoints £160k a year £400k Tory donor Richard Sharp as chairman. Funnily enough he used to be Rich Sunak's boss at Goldman Sachs. Also worked with Johnson when he was Mayor. Specifically appointed to overcome the BBC's perceived left wing bias. Robbie Gibb avowed Brexiteer with close ties to Conservatives appointed to BBC board. Tim Davie BBC DG appointed 2020 previously ran for the Tories in local elections. That's a few for starters!
 

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