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W

wayne

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if B&Q and the rest had to stop selling CU's to joe public (a bit like gun control)how would it affect you that you use diy centres .im thinking along the lines of restricting to the trade
Thoughts please.
 
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R

rumrunner

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  • #2
BnQ is very handy at times ,if you get stuck on a job at least you can go down there and look at a picture,to see how to do it,cant do that up the wholesalers ,and bnq open late ,you can even get a mc donalds at the same time,and theres a lovelly wee girl works in my BnQ ,and a right miserable c... , up the wholesalers ,so whats the choice really?
atvbitwww
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
I never buy from B&Q as too expensive. I get all my kit from the wholesalers at knock down price. Get a good relationship going with them and they just cannot be beaten in my experience
 
E

EasyFox

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Roll on the day when you have to produce, when purchasing electrical installation materials, a trade card with picture of the individual who is issued the card, with the card listing the individuals qualifications & scheme operator or DI/Approved numbers.

The card could be made as an account card with swipe strip/chip pin/sim technology & be accepted by any wholesalers (in effect giving the individual a central account number), so the individuals account is invoiced same as currently on a 30 day period.

Each cards number will be logged to each item purchased on account ( so those companies that have more than 1 employee can see who is taking the p*** with add on's at the wholesalers) & all the wholesaler needs to input would be a job address or customer ref number (audit trail stuff ;))

Make it trade only & over night you will have achived what part P was supposedly created for (instead of the tradesmen tax it's turned into).

Cost for producing the cards =
every XXX thousands of cards will have a different advert, offer it to the likes of : NICEIC / napit / ECA / MK / MEM / Neweys... blah blah you get the idea

Incentive to use the card =
Issue the card FREE when an individual or company pass full approval or DI scheme operators assessment ( I know that wont sit with some but hey this is pie in the sky) for companies they can request additional cards only for employees that have been assessed ( so every electrician will end up being assessed not just one in a company of hundreds, fairer on the sole trader :)). The only way to get materials & the discount at wholesalers is when the card is produced

As I understand it the big scheme operators are trying to get a complete central database of all full & DI approved electricians so most of the work will be done with regards to centralising all details.

It's a start, add your thoughts & ideas maybe we could start it up & charge the NICEIC & co to adopt or use the cards:D


Carry on boys and girls
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
You've just thrown away your fortune their Easyfox!:eek:;)
 
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EasyFox

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
You've just thrown away your fortune their Easyfox!:eek:;)
Damn how simple am I.......................
Okay you lot I now hear by claim this idea & bit of space as MINE....oh alright then ours :cool:
 
C

Cirrus

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Too late, I was on the blower to my lawyer as you typed. Wahay.....Bahamas here we come!
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Roll on the day when you have to produce, when purchasing electrical installation materials, a trade card with picture of the individual who is issued the card, with the card listing the individuals qualifications & scheme operator or DI/Approved numbers.

The card could be made as an account card with swipe strip/chip pin/sim technology & be accepted by any wholesalers (in effect giving the individual a central account number), so the individuals account is invoiced same as currently on a 30 day period.

Each cards number will be logged to each item purchased on account ( so those companies that have more than 1 employee can see who is taking the p*** with add on's at the wholesalers) & all the wholesaler needs to input would be a job address or customer ref number (audit trail stuff ;))

Make it trade only & over night you will have achived what part P was supposedly created for (instead of the tradesmen tax it's turned into).

Cost for producing the cards =
every XXX thousands of cards will have a different advert, offer it to the likes of : NICEIC / napit / ECA / MK / MEM / Neweys... blah blah you get the idea

Incentive to use the card =
Issue the card FREE when an individual or company pass full approval or DI scheme operators assessment ( I know that wont sit with some but hey this is pie in the sky) for companies they can request additional cards only for employees that have been assessed ( so every electrician will end up being assessed not just one in a company of hundreds, fairer on the sole trader :)). The only way to get materials & the discount at wholesalers is when the card is produced

As I understand it the big scheme operators are trying to get a complete central database of all full & DI approved electricians so most of the work will be done with regards to centralising all details.

It's a start, add your thoughts & ideas maybe we could start it up & charge the NICEIC & co to adopt or use the cards:D


Carry on boys and girls

what a load of [email protected]%$S:mad:

there are three categories of people under part P, and your idea would restrict installations to those in category three

Why????

I am not a memeber of a competent persons scheme or approved contractor scheme (and very much doubt that i ever will be)

but I can assure you I am eminently qualified to do electrical work, test and insepct it, and certify it

only under your suggestions i would not be able to to - in fact i would be treated no diferrently to some hairdresser that borrows her boyfriends screwdriver and decides to change a consumer unit


This sort of talk is extremmely dangerous - people read this s%it and think, hmmm, now that would be a good way to raise money, and before you know it it becomes legislation


SHUT UP:mad:

oh, and how do you propose that someone gains experience, and carries out jobs to be able to join a competent persons scheme in the first place?

and training providers, how do you propose they get the raw materials to build the training bays to train tommorrows sparks?

this has really got up my nose, sorry mate but you have lit my fuse with this one:mad:


I, and a number of others on here have expressed frustration with organsiations such as the JIB for their blinkered attitude to peoples qualifications and experience

So what do you propose would qualify someone to get a 'trade card'?

come on, you've talked the talk, lets see you walk the walk

Lay down, on here what you thing is the minimum criteria for getting one of these cards?

and come to think of it, the majority of people on here would not be elgible.

and what about the electrician working for ABC engineering? He needs to move a supply for a lathe or milling machine - oops, he cant get cable or trunking because he is not a member of an approved contractors scheme!

prehaps you could set up a special task force at Dover port, in case someone smuggles in some screened cable from France, or a contactor from Germany, or a fuse from Holland

what a load of ill thought out, elitist, clap trap.

but you have said it now, so its out there - the NICEIC have been trying to restrict installations to its members for years - there are LABC's out there who tell people "you have to be a member of the NICEIC to work in domestic premises because of Part P

or even "you can do the work, but a NICEIC memebr will have to test it for you":mad:

going to go and mow the garden now, going to breathe deeply, and try and relax
 
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E

EasyFox

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
F*** me shakey calm down love you'll do yourself a mischeif when you fall off your soap box ! . :p

As I said "ALL PIE IN THE SKY" & I did also say " it wont sit with some" but I was expecting some constructive critisim (spelling?) not a full on shut the f*** up easyfox.
And there was me thinking that this forum was open to any free thinking ideas and or general chit chat...............maybe I was wrong ;), but your comments are welcome same as everybody else.

Heres an idea why instead of ranting, dont you put some ideas down that would accomodate what you want, then others do the same then the best is taken from all ideas & hey presto......................An idea that meets all needs :)


Hope the lawn looks good, mines to wet to cut at the moment.

Anyway me & my elitist attitude are off to the wholesalers :D & I never intended to upset or anger anybody with the post especially you me old Taff mate.

Am I forgiven yet ? :rolleyes:
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Its all Waynes fault ,he started the thread;)
if shake came into the wholesalers and they wouldnt give him anything ,because hes not a proper electrician ,id pmsl:)

heres a badge for you to wear shake,just in case, oh and dont worry im sure you will be able to get a fake card from someware.
 

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S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
F*** me shakey calm down love you'll do yourself a mischeif when you fall off your soap box ! . :p

As I said "ALL PIE IN THE SKY" & I did also say " it wont sit with some" but I was expecting some constructive critisim (spelling?) not a full on shut the f*** up easyfox.
And there was me thinking that this forum was open to any free thinking ideas and or general chit chat...............maybe I was wrong ;), but your comments are welcome same as everybody else.

Heres an idea why instead of ranting, dont you put some ideas down that would accomodate what you want, then others do the same then the best is taken from all ideas & hey presto......................An idea that meets all needs :)





course your forgiven old pal

and yes we should be able to discuss things, nut i am very aware that people read this forum, and we dont wont to put ideas in their head

but i still challange you to state what you think is the minumum criteria for getting some sort of card like this - state what hoops you want people to jump through (in addition to all the ones already there) before they become elegible to buy a 1 gang two way switch?:p

Its all Waynes fault ,he started the thread;)
if shake came into the wholesalers and they wouldnt give him anything ,because hes not a proper electrician ,id pmsl:)

heres a badge for you to wear shake,just in case, oh and dont worry im sure you will be able to get a fake card from someware.
yeah but thats what would happen

i would do be standing in CEF while some spotty 18yr old minimum wage pikey with a baseball cap on 'checks my paperwork' before he decides that i am eligible to but a length of SWA (even though he doesnt know what it is):mad:

oh some guy on a street corner going

"hey mate, wanna score?"

"wot you got?"

"some 2 gang switches, couple of bayonet fittings"

"got any 61009's?"

"RCBO's? thats some heavy sh*t, got no chance, me supplier got busted, had a box of cooker control units in a secret compartment in the door of his BMW, he's looking at 5 years"

"ok, give me a couple of 6a type B's, a length of two and a half, oh and i'll take a bag of 20mm glands, just to see me through to the weekend"


we can joke about it lads, but really i dont see any way this could work

i dont wanna read an article in The Sun about a four bed detached in Surrey getting broken into, they left the 42" plasma and all the jewellrey, but the consumer unit and all the sockets were missing. Police believe they were stolen to order for a guy doing up his workshop
 
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E

EasyFox

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
i would do be standing in CEF while some spotty 18yr old minimum wage pikey with a baseball cap on 'checks my paperwork' before he decides that i am eligible to but a length of SWA (even though he doesnt know what it is):mad:
:D Nice one, you never fail to make me smile:)

As for me putting up some criteria for this fictional card, I'll knock something up later as I'm the kids taxi driver for the next few hours (school disco's :rolleyes:).

Criteria 1 = got to have at the very least ....one eye & & speak polska ...........................Bugger thats me out .....now wheres my guide dog gone :):D.

see you all later & I'll have a serious think about the criteria thing...never one to run from a fight....sorry challenge :):p:D
 
W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
f**k me i lit a fire under old shakey there:D
in amongst his tirade he got some valuable points ;
1. where do college /training staff get there gear from?
2. if joe public was to change a sw and got it wrong he'd probably trip the fuse/mcb a CU is different
people in the trade who arent installation qualified probably know someone who is
so if sparkA got a CU for sparkB and something went wrong under a tracibility system sparkA would be the one in trouble
this is about stopping joe public doing something dangerous to himself or others
part p is about restricting cowboys who do dangerous work
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
f**k me i lit a fire under old shakey there:D
in amongst his tirade he got some valuable points ;
1. where do college /training staff get there gear from?
2. if joe public was to change a sw and got it wrong he'd probably trip the fuse/mcb a CU is different
people in the trade who arent installation qualified probably know someone who is
so if sparkA got a CU for sparkB and something went wrong under a tracibility system sparkA would be the one in trouble
this is about stopping joe public doing something dangerous to himself or others
part p is about restricting cowboys who do dangerous work
stopping joe public doing something dangerous to himself?

**sniffs**

really? cause i could have sworn this about joe sparks making more money by restrictng sales to the public

ok so bring in the card - i probably wouldnt be elegible because i am not a contractor, so her indoors wants me change that broken light switch - obviuosly i cant buy a switch myself so i will call ABC Electrics - what do you reckon, call out fee? an hours labour? 30% on the cost of the switch? - how much change would i get out of 100 quid?

so of course, there would then be a black market in electrical accessories - or we could just order them over the internet from overseas

meanwhile, the chap at ABC Electrics now has to shell out for yet another card, and join yet another scheme in this already over regulated industry

and of course, CEF, TLC's etc etc will be charging what they like for double sockets, because they will have a captive market

So: what we want - a system that restricts sales to the public for ...ahem...'safety reasons'

what we get: another set of bloo%$y hoops to jump through - shelling out more money to do what we have been doing perfectly adequately for years, and joe public (because these costs have to be passed on to the customer) just ignores us and gets it done by a bloke down the pub

echoes of Part P anyone?

and whatever Part P was meant to be about - the cowboys are doing very nicely out of it - because the 'proper sparks' has to pass on his NICEIC joining fees or his LABC fees to the customer

most Part P work falls 'under the radar', and whilst the chap at ABC Electrics has his hands tied behind his back, the chap with the stetson and spurs on in the pub is ordering his new 4 x 4

and introducing a hair brained scheme such as this, whilst giving the chaps at NICEIC a stirring in their trousers they last had in 2005, would spell the end for a lot of honest, experienced and perfectly competent tradesman in this struggling industry:mad:
 

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