Discuss BG slides on SPD's and AFDD's in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Murdoch

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Got sent this today by an independent wholesaler and thought it would be interesting to see peoples comments

Happy reading / viewing
 

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Pete999

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Got sent this today by an independent wholesaler and thought it would be interesting to see peoples comments

Happy reading / viewing
I think lots of people are getting hood winked by wholesalers regarding these items, you need to read the Regulations regarding installing AFDDs and SPDDs regarding how, where, when and why, before you scaremonger your clients, into maybe unnecessary expenditure, for my tuppence worth.
 

Cid

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I like new gear.
But these prices are ridiculous. Can't imagine mad rush to install these in houses.
 
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Archy Styrigg

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Got sent this today by an independent wholesaler and thought it would be interesting to see peoples comments

Happy reading / viewing
That's a re-hash of the BEAMA guide.
To be fair, they do highlight that AFDDs are 'only recommended'.
 

happyhippydad

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Got sent this today by an independent wholesaler and thought it would be interesting to see peoples comments

Happy reading / viewing
They've reworded parts of that haven't they.

SPD's are 'mandatory' in domestic environments, then they go on to say a risk assessment should be carried out to see if they are necessary??

They also say you have to find out the number of lightning strikes in the area you are installing as part of the assessment. I can just imagine having to contact the weather department everytime I fit a new CU :D.

An interesting/funny read Murdoch, thanks. Not sure why the chap gave you a dumb, perhaps he meant the article.
 
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Murdoch

Murdoch

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Gavin John Hyde

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being most of my work is housebashing there are very few instances where i would need to fit one unless apartments, multi storey etc.
"except for single dwelling units where the total value of the installation and equipment therein, does not justify such protection"

its written to flog them at stupid prices and regardless of merit, this thing will only become more common so long as the manufacturers are on the JPEL/64 determining regulations, Wago vHager come to mind over MF enclosure/terminals. Too many vested interests on the panel now.
 
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Murdoch

Murdoch

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I think that Flick is one of the staff in disguise ... tricky to prove ...
One of the staff members revealed last year there are profiles they use to test things ....
 

Sintra

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One of the staff members revealed last year there are profiles they use to test things ....
As I’ve already explained to you in another thread yes we do have a profile we use to test things and it’s @Testaccount. I really don’t see why you need to persist on continually stirring the pot
 
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Murdoch

Murdoch

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As I’ve already explained to you in another thread yes we do have a profile we use to test things and it’s @Testaccount. I really don’t see why you need to persist on continually stirring the pot
My last word on the subject ......... because the alert in question is abused as convincingly proved by the idiot yesterday

Just get rid of it ........... or allow trolls like him to stir the pot.
 

GMES

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My last word on the subject ......... because the alert in question is abused as convincingly proved by the idiot yesterday

Just get rid of it ........... or allow trolls like him to stir the pot.
When are you going to accept that you don't make the rules on here and as for having the last word on the subject, here it is, one more accusation from you about staff and rogue accounts without proof will see you Banned immediately.
 
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Murdoch

Murdoch

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When are you going to accept that you don't make the rules on here and as for having the last word on the subject, here it is, one more accusation from you about staff and rogue accounts without proof will see you Banned immediately.
you are ALL missing the point.

And my statement about the account was spot on .............. as confirmed

People can also have multiple accounts ....
 

freddo

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I would have liked to have seen an answer to this paragraph:

Since the introduction of the regulation there have been many questions raised by the installers as to whether these devices are a necessary piece of equipment, mainly due to the lack of confidence in the devices and the initial cost of the product (£150 Approx.)
 

Deleted member 9648

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They also say you have to find out the number of lightning strikes in the area you are installing as part of the assessment. I can just imagine having to contact the weather department everytime I fit a new CU :D.
The rate of expected lightning strikes in a given area are shown on a map of the UK in the BBB. No need to contact Carol Kirkwood....(sadly)
 

Sintra

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I think that Flick is one of the staff in disguise ... tricky to prove ...
Im going to rate that as dumb.

One of the staff members revealed last year there are profiles they use to test things ....
Already explained that before and as quote below.

As I’ve already explained to you in another thread yes we do have a profile we use to test things and it’s @Testaccount. I really don’t see why you need to persist on continually stirring the pot
My last word on the subject ......... because the alert in question is abused as convincingly proved by the idiot yesterday

Just get rid of it ........... or allow trolls like him to stir the pot.
It’s been abused a lot more by your good self and you won’t let it rest.

When are you going to accept that you don't make the rules on here and as for having the last word on the subject, here it is, one more accusation from you about staff and rogue accounts without proof will see you Banned immediately.
You have been warned.

you are ALL missing the point.

And my statement about the account was spot on .............. as confirmed

People can also have multiple accounts ....
No you’re missing the point. Your statement about the account was not spot on as you well know. Finally so as I can have the last word, you can have a holiday from the forum for consistent trolling over the last few days.
 

Markyd

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Premises with sleeping accommodation Locations with risk of fire due the nature processed or stored materials (barns, wood-working shops, stores of combustible materials) ........... So i take it that any domestic dwelling with a garage that has power must have an AFDD for lighting and socket circuits......or is a car with petrol not considered combustible material
 

Pete999

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Got sent this today by an independent wholesaler and thought it would be interesting to see peoples comments

Happy reading / viewing
Just read this, can't understand why someone has given you a "DUMB"
 

Midwest

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I haven't got the BBB or done any reading on the subject, but from Murdochs link;

SPD's 'reg 443.5......….except for single dwelling units where the total value of the installation and equipment therein, does not justify such protection'. No mention there of carrying out the risk assessment.
AFDD's are only recommended.

So for a 'standard' domestic property, I can not see the IET are suggesting/recommending/requiring any of these devices to be fitted?
 
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Baddegg

Still simmering Ken, not boiled yet buddy x
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Far as I can see, the only person in a domestic setting that can put a value on anything is the owner not the installer, make a note on any certs....discussed and recommend spds & affds, customer declined :).....I stand by my previous statement on all this, having the manufacturers on the committee is akin to mcvities recommending you eat more biscuits!
 

Midwest

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So i take it that any domestic dwelling with a garage that has power must have an AFDD for lighting and socket circuits......or is a car with petrol not considered combustible material
The example premises, are those that already have process in place because of the high risk of fire.

A motor vehicle has been designed under normal circumstances, not to spontaneously combust (don't tell Zafira owners that), therefore an integral garage wouldn't require AFDD's.

However, if the garage had an internal car charger, the design might be different.
 
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Baddegg

Still simmering Ken, not boiled yet buddy x
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Bit more food for thought.....I just wondering where the home owner would stand with they insurance companies though if the worst was to happen and the insurers find out they declined the spds and adds...
 

Ian1981

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65C919A2-BEC8-4A5B-B03A-FBD26DB1E581.jpeg Overvoltage protection SHALL be provided for the 4 indents given above.
There is no get out risk assessment for these 4 conditions.
For all other cases then a risk assessment can be done.
A risk assessment is not applicable to domestic dwellings, you either fit one by what the cost therin etc etc or you don’t fit one but it’s definitely not a must for domestic installations.

AFDD,S are only a recommendation and unless a client wants to fork out a substantial amount of money for them, then they do not have to be installed
 

Ian1981

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Does seem contradictory though; a fire in a simple domestic property has resulted in serious injury or loss of life.
As usual they have left it to us to decipher what comes under the 4 conditions.
BEMAS guide lists a few scenarios but as usual you will have conflicting views by different electricians and designers about what and where constitutes a SHALL.
So the debate goes on and on..........
Loss of life tho would be a higher risk on surges by lightning and as such a building with a LPS would require a type 1 SPD with further type 2’s downstream to migrate the effects
 

Midwest

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Yes I guess, it needs the potential for lightning strikes first, before you consider the next stage.

Wouldn't want to leave in one those area's where lightning strikes are high, could prove expensive.
 

Wilko

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Yes I guess, it needs the potential for lightning strikes first, before you consider the next stage.

Wouldn't want to live in one those area's where lightning strikes are high, could prove expensive.
I understand that weather patterns are changing in our life time, but on the lighter side these spd changes reminds me of Chicken Little :) .

 

Deleted member 9648

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AFDD's really are a simple matter, explain to the person ordering the work the recommendations in Bs7671 and give them the option. If they decline the additional cost then it goes on the EIC that the devices were recommended but declined. In dwellings same approach for SPD's. In commercial installations it's likely that SPD's will be required but these are a relatively cheap addition to the overall cost of a new commercial installation
 

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