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Been on a refurb today and i've 1st fixed the kitchen, when the builder came this afternoon he said that the boiler supply needs to be on a dedicated circuit......... is this right? and if so why?

Mark
 
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Shakey

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  • #2
Been on a refurb today and i've 1st fixed the kitchen, when the builder came this afternoon he said that the boiler supply needs to be on a dedicated circuit......... is this right? and if so why?

Mark
well the regs call for seperate circuits for water heaters over a certain size (think its 25 litres?), but i believe this more to do with immersion hjeatrs rather than gas boilers (which i think is what you are talking about)

aint got the regs in front of me!
 
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heathelect

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  • #4
hiya mark, it doesnt have to go on its own cct, but remember if you connect it to a ring via a spur and a fault does develop uneccesary tripping may occur, as general practice i try and put a dedicated circuit in for a boiler.hope that helps.dave
 
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zupos40

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  • #5
No it not a requirement of BS7671:2008, but it may be a requirment from the boiler manufacturers, so if the builder show you the installation instruction for the boiler and it require a dedicated circuit than you must comply, this also applies with reference to supplementary bonding. Major change in BS767:2008 is that throught out the regulation they now state that manufacturer instruction must be complied with, as well as BS7671:2008.
 
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Thanks boys............ 1st job this morning is to read the boiler instructions when i get to site. And something i'll bear in mind for next time.

Don't you just hate it when "non sparks" tell you your job!! I just hope i'm right and he's wrong.

Mark
 
G

greekislandlover

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  • #7
The problem with anything with a motor is that it's a prime candidate for nuisance tripping when the motor gets old and tired (like me). That's the reason a separate circuit is the recommendation to avoid tripping out the freezers/TV in the event of a nuisance trip. We normally put in a dedicated feed to it during a rewire, (more good practice than anything) but this week I might just tag it onto the immersion feed as the isolators are in one dual box.
 
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Shakey

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  • #8
No it not a requirement of BS7671:2008, but it may be a requirment from the boiler manufacturers, so if the builder show you the installation instruction for the boiler and it require a dedicated circuit than you must comply, this also applies with reference to supplementary bonding. Major change in BS767:2008 is that throught out the regulation they now state that manufacturer instruction must be complied with, as well as BS7671:2008.
hhmmm, problem is, I have recently installed a 14kW electric boiler, (yes, on a seperate circuit!) the manufacturers instructions expressely say "must be installed by a NICEIC registered electrician"

Ok, we know thats a crock of poo, but how far do you follow?

And if you had an installation with an alkathene incommer, and you have proved all internal metal pipework is above 22k ohms, but the boiler manufacturer said "all pipework must be bonded", and the boiler instructions make reference to 'live and neutral' and were clearly written by someone who wouldnt know the regs from a basket of pegs, how far do you take it

discuss please:rolleyes:
 
D

DYCHE4230

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  • #9
Especially when a lot of instructions are translations from another language and don't make sense anyway!!!
 
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zupos40

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  • #10
Personally I would bond any pipework associated with the boiler if requested, by the manufacturers instruction, only when the measured insulation resistance was above 250 K ohms, would I not. One would hope it never happened, but if a fault occurred on un bonded pipe work there is a greater risk of electric shock, I do not hold the belief that RCD are the best thing since sliced bread, RCD will not stop you receiving an electric shock, they only reduce the risk of it been fatal, that why BS7671 called it supplementary protection and why it is now know as additional protection, and never to be used as the sole means of protection.
 
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wayne

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  • #11
i'm still seeing instructions to comply with the 16th edition .the info should read current regs......... i know pendantic but shakey's not even qualified
 
C

CUDABOY

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  • #12
hhmmm, problem is, I have recently installed a 14kW electric boiler, (yes, on a seperate circuit!) the manufacturers instructions expressely say "must be installed by a NICEIC registered electrician"

Ok, we know thats a crock of poo, but how far do you follow?

And if you had an installation with an alkathene incommer, and you have proved all internal metal pipework is above 22k ohms, but the boiler manufacturer said "all pipework must be bonded", and the boiler instructions make reference to 'live and neutral' and were clearly written by someone who wouldnt know the regs from a basket of pegs, how far do you take it

discuss please:rolleyes:
yes but did you notify building control of your installation?
 
S

Shakey

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  • #13
yes but did you notify building control of your installation?
why would I need to Nath, i never said it was domestic (it was upstairs by the testing area/classrooms), so Part P doesnt apply

Nathan - 0, Shakey 1:p

i'm still seeing instructions to comply with the 16th edition .the info should read current regs......... i know pendantic but shakey's not even qualified
Wayne - 1, Shakey - 0

you got me there fella!:rolleyes:

Personally I would bond any pipework associated with the boiler if requested, by the manufacturers instruction, only when the measured insulation resistance was above 250 K ohms, would I not. One would hope it never happened, but if a fault occurred on un bonded pipe work there is a greater risk of electric shock, I do not hold the belief that RCD are the best thing since sliced bread, RCD will not stop you receiving an electric shock, they only reduce the risk of it been fatal, that why BS7671 called it supplementary protection and why it is now know as additional protection, and never to be used as the sole means of protection.
w

so when you say you would bond the pipework, what would you bond it too?

just curious, but what do you base your figure of 250k on?:rolleyes:
 
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C

CUDABOY

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  • #14
why would I need to Nath, i never said it was domestic (it was upstairs by the testing area/classrooms), so Part P doesnt apply

Nathan - 0, Shakey 1:p


sorry, i was refering to life in the REAL world. nathan 1, shakey 0
 
S

Shakey

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  • #15
why would I need to Nath, i never said it was domestic (it was upstairs by the testing area/classrooms), so Part P doesnt apply

Nathan - 0, Shakey 1:p


sorry, i was refering to life in the REAL world. nathan 1, shakey 0
theres a world outside!!!!!! when did this happen?:confused:

how would you know anyway Nath, you couldnt see through all that ruddy hair

Nathan - 1, Shakey - 1
 
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CUDABOY

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i have eyes in my fingers,its a genetic mutation of being brought up by the sea in penarth! my hair is a wig that hides my tentacles.......or is that testicles? mmm, got hold of nic, will do my assesment<well one> job by labc, money i know but least all be above board! ketchup soon man, nathan.
 
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zupos40

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  • #17
Shakey

Supplementary bond pipes together, gas supply, boiler flow and return etc, The 250k ohms or 0.25 Mohms value was obtained from information in an old copy of Whitfield I think when I was studying for my C course 1983. Is your 22k ohms value based upon section 12.7 Commentary on wiring regulation by Paul Cook IEE.

books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0852962371...

Is that why you quoted that value, is there something special about your boiler that it can not or should not be bonded.


 
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tony.towa

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i have eyes in my fingers,its a genetic mutation of being brought up by the sea in penarth!
Daft questions.
1. Is the pier still standing at Penarth
2. Is there still an ice cream parlour on the sea front?

Anyhow back to the original thread. Wherever possible I will always put heating systems on their own circuit fro the cu, that way if a fault occurs on any other circuit the heating still works also the heating circuit can be effectively isolated. Generally on domestic combi's the manufacturers recommend suitable rated circuits and double pole isolation isolation capability. This leaves it open to interpretation and I have seen a central heating installation with a three pin plug on it, the engineer saying this complies with what the manufacturer requires, which I suppose in some ways it did.
 
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CUDABOY

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hi, yes and yes! the multi story and ammusments gone,rumor has it the swimming baths <since a pub and now left empty for years> is to be made back into a pool, happy days!
 
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tony.towa

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Cheers Cudaboy, haven't been there for years but as a kid would go there most Sundays as a drive out for the family, sat on a wooden crate in the back of my dad's commer van (boy that dates me!!!).
 
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CUDABOY

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  • #21
mate worked on the waverley, 83?ish, was all a blur...anyway we liberated a barrel of lager from it tied it to end of pier then at first light while tide out and in my mums daf volvo 66 deluxe automatic:eek: on the beach grabbed our booty!!! ha. that gareth edwards in your pic?
 
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tony.towa

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Surprised you got back with the booze in a little Daf - the dreaded variomatic belt gearbox.
A couple of weeks ago there was a spate of changing the pictures on avatars and it was pointed out that Wayne's avatar was a picture of an image of God. Well being a Welshman I thought if he can do it so can I and now use a picture of Barry John!!!!:D:D:D:D
 
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CUDABOY

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happy dayze, arms park, clarks pie! my cousin seinor lecturer in warwick uni, lovley part of the world, up the pod too recently.
 
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tony.towa

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  • #24
Best pies in the World, bought hot from the shop in Cowbridge Road near Victoria Park. Used to get one on the walk home from Ninian Park, if I hadn't spent my money on 5 Park Drive and six matches!!!

It will always be the Arms Park to me it's just a bit bigger and moved a bit downstream.
 

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