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wattsup

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So, I now am breaking the law. I cannot isolate without breaking the 'seal'

The tails are my property, yet they are protected by their 'do not remove seal' in effect they are not acting legally.

They the 'board' do not provide isolation, are they breaking the 'law' I would love to take them to court. And will do so one day.

For me it makes no sense, but some customers think ahhh bloody cowboy, interfering with the supply...as though you can change a dis. board or more in my line of work installing back up generators without 'tampering'

Try explaining to a client the tails are yours, the board have no right to stop you....they just see the red writing on the label and scares the **** out of em.

On another note, I've just been informed recently giving stand by generator supply is notifiable under blah blah, yet I do not normally make any changes to any installation, I don't change the board etc, I just cut the tails...most times it is impossible without cutting seals and withdrawing main fuse. Accordingly that is illegal, is it one law for the board and one for us?

Over the years I've probably done in the region of 50 or so, no board has sued me yet

On another point I've switched to another provider (at home) they came they switched the meter to another (recent) bloodyell what about z\s readings etc they have made alterations...oh we don't bother with that ****, lol. You may laugh but under present legislation they should, in effect it is bull****, sparks know it is, leccy comps know it is, the only people whom don't is the governmentry,

But they can tax you again and create meaningless jobs
 
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Carter

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  • #2
You seem to be a man after my own heart Wattsup and a very good point made re ownership of those tails, a textbook example of extraneous legislation making life that little bit more dangerous and inconveient for us all. By preventing access to them via a seal they are appropriating control of it to themselves which in the final analysis is a form of theft as defined in the Theft Act 1968 http://www.lawteacher.net/PDF/TA 1968.pdf
Have to admit, over the years I have developed an excellent and methodical technique to changing live tails if needed. :eek: Shock, horror, call the militia! and won't someone think of the chiiiiildren! Not something I'm proud of so we'll say no more about it eh?
 
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Cirrus

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  • #3
I don't get the issue with cutting seals?:confused: If that is as dangerous as your life has ever got then my advice to you is to live a little. Cmon guys, I cut seals as often as adding new circuits and don't even give it a thought.
 
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  • #4
I don't get the issue with cutting seals?:confused: If that is as dangerous as your life has ever got then my advice to you is to live a little. Cmon guys, I cut seals as often as adding new circuits and don't even give it a thought.
I'm with Cirrus on this one

Get 'em cut !!
 
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PAUL M

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  • #5
if they where that bothered about us cutting seals those crimping tools they use to reseal would be available to buy then end of problem.
 
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KFORDHUNTER

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  • #6
I would just like to reiterate a former point i have made.

I do not know and have never seen a seal, everytime i change a board the seal has already been removed, honest m'lud;)
 
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Cirrus

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  • #7
I would just like to reiterate a former point i have made.

I do not know and have never seen a seal, everytime i change a board the seal has already been removed, honest m'lud;)
PMSL!


 
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tony.towa

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Back to cutting seals.

In order to change a cu, or upgrade the tails the supply has to be isolated.

Options
1. Remove tails from cu whilst live. Been there, done that, not much fun and beware of metal clad boards.
2. Contact electricity supplier, ask them to remove fuses whilst work being carried out. If the person you speak to knows what you mean you are doing well. You get a date in three weeks time and between 8am and 1pm or 1pm and 6pm. I'm sure the customer will understand, especially when they do not come back the same day to reinstate the tails (surely not another two to three weeks. oh yes they will bill the customer too.
3. Contact supplier and request an inline isolator to be installed. Have actually had some success with this one. Once you find out who the contract is with locally you can ring them direct and they will try to help. Unfortunately they cannot always fit in with the timescales needed.
4. Cut the seals yourself and replace with some you just happen to have left over from the last time you met up with the suppliers contractor. definately a no no! (Did you know that you can use a standard ratchet crimp to close them up. Meter readers only check they are intact not the number letter code on them, as they are also sub contractors. Well so I've been told :rolleyes:)
What a dilemma, what do we do?

In some areas, where there is not an isolator fitted you can book up to have one fitted after the cu change and they will also replace the seals. When Siemens had the contract in this area this was the normal method and it was done free.

What I find amazing is how many places now are found to have either broken seals or no seals when you go to look at the job!!!!!:rolleyes:
 
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jimes

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  • #9
i just go to my local sec depot and they give me a bag of the blue plastic seals to put on after ive cut lead ones
 
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CUDABOY

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  • #10
aye, was like it when i got here, honest gov! cuttem every time,bout 75% of ones i see already are cut!:)
 
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hungy5

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  • #11
How I see is either wait for few weeks and pay couple hundred pounds or do it yourself and get the job done....Then call Edf or whoever is the provider and report that you just done a job at the address and have found the seal been break. They would much appreciate and then reseal it. I been taught by Ex-Edf guy. got away everytime....!!...
 
W

wattsup

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  • #12
The point is just cut the seal, if they dont like, let em take you court, they will not do so, they cannot win, assuming no option if the tails cannot be isolated by any other means. But my main point is trying to explain to a customer, some think on the wrong side of the box, the main point I'm trying to make is their warning note is illegal, it is not illegal to 'tamper' with your own property. They need suing good style, I aim to make all leccy companies provide isolation on their side, not mine. Their illegal notice is now wearing thin. It will of course cost them loads of dosh, but hey they brought it on..
 
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jimes

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  • #13
sec have no problem with the seals being cut, as i said they even supply me with new ones!most new installs have isolating meters anyhow
 
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marty1234

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  • #14
i cut seal to day i phoned scottish power to tell them what i was doing . i told them the tail on the main board were burning so they said this was not safe so cut away :)
 
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Shakey

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  • #15
aye, was like it when i got here, honest gov! cuttem every time,bout 75% of ones i see already are cut!:)
yeah I believe you Nathan, got your DAB yet? and get your ruddy hair cut!

your certificates are in as well, i will try and get them posted out to you tommorrow matey:)
 
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spark-doctor

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  • #16
your certificates are in as well, i will try and get them posted out to you tommorrow matey:)
Ha Ha BUSTED. Never try to blag teacher
 
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DYCHE4230

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  • #18
just rung southern electric to enquire ....they said cut away, how liberating..........No red tape with them!!!!!! just call them afterwards and they will come round and reseal
 
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London Luke

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  • #19
-------s
i cut as and when i want !
 
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EasyFox

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  • #20
just rung southern electric to enquire ....they said cut away, how liberating..........No red tape with them!!!!!! just call them afterwards and they will come round and reseal
Same for me, thats if I remember to call them afterwards:D
It was the meter fairy honest guvnor the seal was off when I got here:rolleyes:
I do always reseal with my own lead crimp & wire purchased from flebay many moons ago.
 
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CUDABOY

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  • #21
yeah I believe you Nathan, got your DAB yet? and get your ruddy hair cut!

your certificates are in as well, i will try and get them posted out to you tommorrow matey:)
hair? cant cut that, long enough for a turban ,couple sunbeds and im off to council for a house,taxi,handouts etc!
 
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heathelect

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  • #22
I have no problem cutting seals, health & safety is of first importance, cut em off, then ring supplier and tell them tails were loose they will then come and re seal, works every time
 
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harrymonkfish

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  • #24
Hi there.

I am studying for my 2330 at the moment. This post is very interesting.

Are you saying you break the seal on the cut out fuse and remove the fuse to disconnect the supply from the CU?

Are these fuses easy to remove once the cover is off?

In my house which is rented, I have a:

Supply cable
cut out fuse
current operated earth leakage circuit breaker 100mA 80A
CU

the circuit breaker doesn't state whether it is SP or DP.

It is quite an old installation. Would the CB turned off be acceptable to anyone if you wanted the work on the meter tails, as a means of isolation?

Any answers would greatly enhance my understanding of this area of an installation and would be very much appreciated.

Kind regards
Harry

Hello again.

I have just tried to contact my supplier to (hypothetically) get my supply disconnected so I could (hypothetically)change my consumer unit.

I first went to the western power distribution website which said contact your supplier.

I telephone the number on my bill. they gave me another number. telephoned that. they gave me another number. telephoned that. ended up back at customer services. great.

so how do you get a reliable way of contacting all these different companies? and how do you know who supplies who with what?

confused harry!
 
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Spudnik

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  • #25
There is no substitution for safe isolation and if the only means is to pull the fuse then so be it, just remembering to ensure ALL loads are disconnected ie main switch to the CU is off.

As long as it is re-sealed afterwards then no prob.

What you must be careful of is some of the older fuse carriers can be quite stubborn when it comes to releasing the fuse and it has been known for them to fall apart as the fuse is being withdrawn.

Its a judgement call that only the electrician can make on each installation whether its safe to pull or not.
 
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mackem sparky

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  • #26
i wouldnt worry bout it i cut the seals on the meter and on the bullet i know were supposed to inform the board when we have so they can re seal it but no one does
 
K

kung

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  • #27
hey im an ex meter recert engineer for southern electric and 80% of seals we saw were broken by sparks changing boards etc when we reported this at a team meeting they just ignord us and said dont worry about it it costs to much to take it to court so as far as im concerned id cut seals all day long as long as you turn main switch off before and if 3 ph turn off main isolators and put tape over cutout to stop things accidently toutching the live contacts and perming your hair (single ph ! 3 ph and split ph bit more than a perm) dont worry !
regards
Tony
 
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petewan

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  • #28
just done c/u change, rang npower and they said cut seals, and reseal after.
job done.
 
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gunner

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  • #29
do it and notify the supplier to cover yourself
 
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Sparkysteve82

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  • #30
I just spoke to a meter man on this subject, and he said even though it's illegal it hasn't stopped anybody doing it, he gave me a pack of the steel threads and crimps and told me to make sure I sealed everything back up after the work was finished.:D
 

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