Britain Leave the European Union (Please be polite with other people's views)

[telectrix]

We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender,

 

[FatAlan]

People’s Vote Please. 30 years of anti European rhetoric in the press have tainted people’s views and the sensible people who voted Brexit will now realise that they’ve been subject to a big con Rule Britannia part of an inclusive European community.

 

[andyb]

We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender,

The only fight happening is the Tories fighting amoungst themselves.
But don't worry, they will all fall in line tonight to protect their party, their jobs and the interests of their friends and backers.

 

[Pete999]

Just as long as JC and DA don't get into power, the ought to get Dianne Abbot to count the votes.

 

[andyb]

Just as long as JC and DA don't get into power, the ought to get Dianne Abbot to count the votes.

Heaven forbid we get a goverment working for the benifit of ordinary people Pete. Far better having self serving elites working on behalf of themsleves and the rich.

 

[Darkwood]

People’s Vote Please. 30 years of anti European rhetoric in the press have tainted people’s views and the sensible people who voted Brexit will now realise that they’ve been subject to a big con Rule Britannia part of an inclusive European community.

Here lies the problem, there has not been 30yrs of anti-European rhetoric as you put it, there has been select events like joining the Euro etc than reached the public ear but not until the referendum did the public really get any idea how the EU effected the UK.

Your comment 'sensible people who voted Brexit will realise that they've been subject to a big con' ... give examples please and cite your reasoning, sweeping statements and accusation occur on both sides but one thing that has been realised is this 'Trade Group' which we joined and were promised became something else we never signed up to, the lies were very much been imposed on the EU member states while their powers and democratic rights were eroded, I can cite many instances where this can easily be shown and the EU's denial and ignorance or members democratic votes is historically documented, when you openly deny a member states democratic rights we call that a dictatorship.

Your last comment makes no sense - been part of an inclusive European community, we are leaving the EU not Europe, our place as a European country remains the same.

 

[snowhead]

we are leaving the EU not Europe, our place as a European country remains the same.

Agreed.
Geography dictates that we are part of Europe, not politics.

The only way we could separate from Europe would be to build a wall down the North Sea and Channel.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Don’t actually see what we’ll gain by leaving the EU.

 

[telectrix]

Don’t actually see what we’ll gain by leaving the EU.

we get out fishing grounds back from the frogs and the dons.
we get to make laws for the UK in the UK, not in sprout land
we get something like £350m per week saved which we can squander ourselves instead of some foreign snowflake projects that only benefit lawyers, MEPs and various other snouts in the EU money trough.
we have some say on who we let into the UK.

i could go on...........but I.m working on a project to close the channel tunnel.

 

[Darkwood]

Don’t actually see what we’ll gain by leaving the EU.

Adding on to Tels list and not repeating them, at present this so called FREE trade deal is far from it, we are subject to heavy tariffs on things like food, clothing and footwear etc, these are essential items so it is a burden on the poor, when we leave we can arrange free trade deals with other nations and reduce these costs dramatically which will benefit the poorest in society.
We will no longer be in a ringfenced trade group, the negatives of been in this group are artificially high prices, lower quality and lower wages. When we organise new trade deals that will subject the EU to competition it cannot control which it does now, this will drive better deals for us and better quality products as a consequence.
Edit - I'll add that we can make our own laws to suit our own country and will not be subject to laws that benefit other nations at our cost just because we happen to be one of the biggest EU contributors.

 

[andyb]

Your comment 'sensible people who voted Brexit will realise that they've been subject to a big con' ... give examples please

1/ 350 million on big red bus
2/ We can't control our borders
3/ We can't make our own laws
4/ They need our trade more than we need theirs
5/ We can't stop Turkey jouning and there are 80 mllion Turks headng this way
6/ Our rebate can be taken from us against our will
7/ We can't stop a european army
8/ We are liable for eurozone bailouts in the future
9/ UK is always outvoted
10/ British sreel suffered because of the EU

There are others

Oh and this

Vote Leave fined and reported to police by Electoral Commission - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-fined-and-reported-to-police-by-electoral-commission-brexit

 

[andyb]

we get out fishing grounds back from the frogs and the dons.

Maybe, but it also means that our fisherman loose access to their fishing grounds.
Also as 75% of fish landed in the UK goes to Europe there will be high tarrifs on these with a no deal Brexit.
Finally, don't think for one second that this goverment isn't capable of selling our fishermen and farmers down the road to protect their mates n the city.

we get to make laws for the UK in the UK, not in sprout land

What laws are these?

we get something like £350m per week saved

You still belive this?

 

[FatAlan]

Here lies the problem, there has not been 30yrs of anti-European rhetoric as you put it, there has been select events like joining the Euro etc than reached the public ear but not until the referendum did the public really get any idea how the EU effected the UK.

Your comment 'sensible people who voted Brexit will realise that they've been subject to a big con' ... give examples please and cite your reasoning, sweeping statements and accusation occur on both sides but one thing that has been realised is this 'Trade Group' which we joined and were promised became something else we never signed up to, the lies were very much been imposed on the EU member states while their powers and democratic rights were eroded, I can cite many instances where this can easily be shown and the EU's denial and ignorance or members democratic votes is historically documented, when you openly deny a member states democratic rights we call that a dictatorship.

Your last comment makes no sense - been part of an inclusive European community, we are leaving the EU not Europe, our place as a European country remains the same.

Clear documented correlation recorded showing public opinion of EU decreases when anti EU articles published in right wing press like a Daily Mail.
What Domocratic Rights have been eroded?

 

[FatAlan]

Also we are outside the Euro. I just get the impression that we’ve already got the best deal!

 

[andyb]

Also we are outside the Euro. I just get the impression that we’ve already got the best deal!

Plus schengen opt out
Plus rebate
Plus banking union opt out

 

[Darkwood]

Clear documented correlation recorded showing public opinion of EU decreases when anti EU articles published in right wing press like a Daily Mail.
What Domocratic Rights have been eroded?

What about the other way around though, millions of EU money invested into our education system, to promote EU ideology, Pro EU representatives making regular speeches at Universities and Colleges while Anti EU ideology is is both suppressed and denied when requested.
The EU has withdrawn party funding for Anti EU groups even though it has to be impartial to the funding of them.
The EU also has its fingers in the pie of our media like the BBC which is why they continue to give biased reporting with terms like crashing out when this has actually no meaning, the WTO is a deal in itself.
What about Soros the billionaire who is pumping millions into pro EU groups with the intentions to frustrate the democratic decision, Soros has direct links to Gina Millers Pro EU group she set up, although she has distanced herself from the group now it makes one wonder who payed her legal bills as she refused to divulge such info' when she contended parliament on a meaningful vote, luckily it has backfired because it blocked a deal that would have seen us tied into the customs union indefinitely and at the mercy of any laws they made without any tabled response.. guessing she didn't expect her interference would be the key to blocking a deal she would have been happy with.

What I am getting at is you respond with a daily rag which is clearly politically position and they do not deny it, what is worrying is all the millions pumped into pro EU projects and groups to sway the public opinion that are not clear and transparent.

Prior to the Brexit vote the EU were blocked from introducing pro EU literature into our junior schools as this was seen as an attempt to brainwash the new generation with the eventual goal of off realising the idea of a EU superstate (which they now have admitted) and preparing the future generation to be voting yes, the reason many of the students are Pro EU nowadays is because many further education systems are swamped with teachers who are pro EU and if you just look around many of the universities it won't take long before you spot pro EU propaganda... you see not just in these institutes but everywhere, the union jack everyday replaced by the EU flag on millions of registration plates across the country, it is subtle attempts like this that are forced onto us that slowly to subconsciously sway our opinion, the exact same reason business spend millions on advertising because it has a subconscious influence, this in the long term helps suppress Anti EU opinion.

Unfortunately public opinion changed for many reasons and this opened the whole EU can of worms and people started to realise just exactly what the EU is and why we would be better of out of it, we are not alone, the rise of Anti EU attitudes is flooding Europe and this is not because of lies and propaganda, it is because the EU has been dictating to countries and ignoring their democratic decisions.

 

[telectrix]

wonder how many UK motorists would have had that EU flag on their car reg. plates if it had been a swastika? a pig with a different name is still a pig.

 

[Darkwood]

1/ 350 million on big red bus

OK yes, but the bus was meant to be an example of what the money could be used for not a literal statement but it been ambiguous it was suddenly jumped on by remainers, seriously, did you believe it meant we would divert all the money into one body if we left or as it was intended to mean, use the money to aid our own interests.
2/ We can't control our borders

No we cannot, we can implement restrictions on access to certain services but we cannot stop the free flow of EU member states who have access to and are fighting for the same jobs we are, this has driven down wages across the board.
3/ We can't make our own laws

We can make our laws but as long as they do not interfere with or contradict any EU laws, this leaves us with very limited scope, many EU laws are dictated in the interests of Europe as an whole and have negative effects for the UK yet we cannot do anything about it.
When new EU laws and legislation are introduced we get very little say and it is very rare our objections lead to a solution in our favour, more often the not we are out voted and have to accept them.
4/ They need our trade more than we need theirs

This is a 50/50 - the EU is a much bigger entity than the UK so percentage wise the EU trades considerable less of its total than visa versa, but this cannot be put down to a percentage of trade or even the deficit difference, there are many southern EU member states like Spain that rely heavily on the UK with us been the one of the top export markets for them, Spain has a negative economical turnover, it buys way more than it sells, this puts it in a very vulnerable position to Brexit, that and the fact we invest billions into the country means a bad deal could ultimately cause Spain to economically topple, given it already has massively high youth unemployment and massive EU debts it cannot pay off it could as could a few other countries be a catalyst that pulls down the whole EU and Euro.
The EU has recently stopped a trillion plus bond buy up which it brought in after the crash, this was to stop the Euro failing but the bond buy up can no longer be funded and it desired effects were not realised so the EU as a whole are not as comfortable as they would like you to think, economists know this all to well hence EU investment from external sources has fallen sharply while UK invested hit record highs in 2017 and are still holding strong even in the adversity of Brexit and uncertainty.
5/ We can't stop Turkey jouning and there are 80 mllion Turks headng this way.

The only reason this didn't actually occur was a change in circumstances, the ill fated decision of Merkel to open the floodgates led to a big fall out between the EU and Turkey, Turkey even conned billions out of the EU due to its bartering position and the fact it was holding back the tide of immigrants, that was until the talks to join totally broke down...at the time this claim was made, the EU had made a positive statement about the relationship of Turkey and talks to give it EU status (well a chopped down version).
6/ Our rebate can be taken from us against our will

What rebate is this?... The EU created the perfect storm for some of our industries to become negative and thus rely on EU rebates, this ensures EU reliance for a member state and make gives the EU a strong position in any discussions, that is unless you are a big contributor like we are, the fact the rebate never even leaves UK banks and is never actually handed over shows we pay our own rebate, the EU just artificially increase our membership fee to make it seem we are receiving something back.
7/ We can't stop a european army

The EU does not want to rely on America for military support, it want to make it own decisions and choices, key to the EU Army idea was having the UK on board but they denied this idea for 2 decades saying it was not true, then the president of the EU admitted in a speech that indeed they had a goal for a EU Army, this is still the case today.
8/ We are liable for eurozone bailouts in the future

Our membership fee and heavy tariffs pay for bailouts etc as it stands, there are only a few member states that are positive contributors, the rest are been propped up by the major contributors that is France, Germany and the UK.
9/ UK is always outvoted

We are not always outvoted, we are the majority of the time, but without context this means nothing, we are outvoted on some very important votes that have big effects for the UK and this is why it doesn't really work for the UK.
10/ British sreel suffered because of the EU

This is misleading and taken a bit out of context, China dumped loads of cheap steel in the world market against agreed trade practices, this effected most countries but because we have a bif steel industry it hit us harder, we did take certain steps although we could have taken bigger ones to soften the overall blow but were restricted by EU regulations on lower caps for tax.

There are others

Oh and this

Vote Leave fined and reported to police by Electoral Commission - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-fined-and-reported-to-police-by-electoral-commission-brexit

What this ignores is the fact remain were also found to be fiddling the numbers and neither these come anywhere close to the governments 10million pumped into a pro EU leaflet campaign using tax payers money days before the official campaign with spending cap started.
I will also add that the BBC covered the remain accusation and fine in a 30second story on one day, it stayed on the brexit campaign story for a week and they say they are impartial.
Subscribe to read | Financial Times - https://www.ft.com/content/2f91721d-9512-3c2a-9e0f-4453897183c8

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Far as I am aware, we have the right to opt out of any laws we don’t like.
The £350 mil doesn’t take account of the rebate we get.
The EU flag on the No. plates is a choice, which allows us not to have to put a sticker on the back of our cars when we drive in Europe.
Other choices include flag of St. George, Saltire, Welsh Dragon, even the NI flag.
Not sure about the shoes, as I mostly wear safety boots, motorcycle boots or plain trainers.

 

[Darkwood]

@spinlondon
Regarding the Flag, originally the EU put it in legislation that all EU members number plates need to carry the EU flag this was contended at a later date and they allowed a change in law that you can opt out of this but you need to show your country of origin with a sticker.
My point wasn't about it been law or choice, its the fact 99% of vehicles will have the EU flag on and the letters representing the country, I was discussing subconscious influence like advertising does, we are passed by thousands of EU flag symbols on a daily basis was my point.