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Discuss Broadband tinternet in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net

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sparkyork

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hi all, just wondering how many of you actually understand broadband download speeds. ive always thought that my existiing and now ex bt connection was 8mb/s downloads, ie 8 mega bytes a second, turns out it actually means 8 mega bits a second which is substancially less about a tenth of the speed.

virgin media promote 20mb download which will down load a 5mega byte standard music file in 2 seconds, which is 2.5 mega bytes a second.

i feel that the vast maority of people think there getting something better than it actually is, how many people go out and buy some more memory for there pc, dealing in mb's or a new hard drive when they used to be mb's or 512mb memory sticks?? they then sign up for some brodaband and naturally asume there getting 8mb a second when there actually getting about .8 mega bytes per second.

just a thought as ive been building pc's since i was 19 and never knew this, im betting the vast majority of ppl in the uk dont have a clue and were getting our legs lifted.

rich
 
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S

spark-doctor

Also remember that the further away from the exchange you are the slower your speed will be because of the added resistance in the wire.

If you are more than 15 miles from a exchange you may have problems getting broardband.
 
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how more correct can you be...

i do understand all the internet speeds at the moment, and its a big con, as it says "up to" 8mb megabit ;) and your line probably can't even get upto 8mbit as ur exchange is miles away. so your paying for something u cant have, and i bet you, they'd allow u to sign up to the 16mbit connection even if u werent getting anything near the 8mbit.

and this connection ratio does my head in too, when you get a nice low connection ratio compared to the other service providers and they still end up been ****e, with a priority thing put inplace over downloads. and limited bandwidth.

bah!!!
 
Havent got a clue what speed mine is, but i get it free with my Orange mobile contract, so im not paying for it, and its perfectly fast enough for everything i do on-line. Cant fault it in any way.
 
S

sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
yeah i know about distance from exchange and all that which is part of it but its at the very route where to me the lie begins!

these isp's should advertise; join virgin media today and get the mother of all broadbands, you could get up to 2.5mbytes a second. or O2 join us and get great 0.8 mbytes a second!

to me it is total false advertise relying on customers lack of knowledge and expecting them to miss interpret virgins 20mb/s as mega bytes a second. its like bringing a new car out and saying its got 220hp and everybody assumes it means hosepower, when infact it means "hen power" and actually equates to 22 horse power.

its time this country got a grip or the people living in it, we just take it all, i men some may argue well its faster than a dial up 56kb(bit)s connection and you can play online games and download at same time etc etc. which yes you can but its just the way were led to beleive its mint when its not, if there was a mass poll id bet a years takings that 90 percent of the population think there getting mega bytes and not mega bits and would be horrified if the really knew and would prob not be prepared to part with as much cash.

speedtester.net is a good speed measureing service, clcik on madenhead server to start download. even these sites glamorize it a bit they dont advertise bits anywhere! there all in on it and out to flease us. if youre getting it "free" then thats great but nothing is "free" in this country
 
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S

spark-doctor

have just tried that speedtester.net and found out i am only getting 9.3Mbps and i am paying for 20Mbps.:mad: Think i shall be on the phone in the morning:mad::mad::mad:

ps i am only 2 miles from the exchange.
 
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sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
yeah and at present your actuallt able to download 1.2megabytes a second, good look 2moro, they know naff all aswell, unless you actually talk to an engineer, was on the virgin site earlier and little chat box came up, i asked someone who works for virgin if i could actually download at 20 mega bytes a second and she said yes! i then said do you know its not mega bytes and actually megabits and infact i could only get 2.5mega bytes a second! they dissappeared rather quickly!! theiving buggers!

jese luke do you mean in real terms or blag terms! thats worse than dial up!!

i use the speedtest.net (via google)
 
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"We've just tested your line and can confirm your line supports the UK's most complete broadband package, BT Total Broadband. We estimate your maximum download speed to be 0.5 Mbps (Megabits per second)."

there ya go, looks nice doesnt it :'(
 
K

KillerWatt

Education time....

Kb = Kilobits
KB = Kilobytes
Mb = Megabits
MB = Megabytes

To convert from bits to bytes, divide the bits per second by 8.

Cable (Virgin Media) users will get the speeds claimed.....that is until you exceed the paltry 4GB (4 Gigabyte) limit they impose, then you will be throttled to 25% of what you are supposed to get for 5 hours.


ADSL users...the speed you get is dependant on a number of factors, most noticeably your actual line length from the exchange to your front room.

There are 2 different types of ADSL available in the UK, and they are....

RADSL (Rate Adaptive Digital Subscriber Line)
ADSL2+

You don't stand a chance of getting ADSL2+ unless your ISP (Internet Service Provider) has their own DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexor) in your exchange.

RADSL only goes up to 8Mbits
ADSL2+ goes up to 24Mbits

RADSL is more forgiving over longer distances, however the maximum speed is pants.
With ADSL2+, you are much more likely to pull higher speeds than what you ever would on (R)ADSL.....however your speed will drop VERY sharply once you go more than 2KM or so in line length.

On standard ADSL, my line can only manage 6.5Mbits.
Since moving to ADSL2+ (O2 is the service provider), I pull a genuine 17Mbits downstream (1.4Mbits upstream) with a line length of 1.1KM.
The reasons for the massive speed boost are all to do with the frequencies involved (ADSL2+ works on much higher frequencies)

I'll post a graph up later (when I can find it) showing what speeds to expect over a given line length.
 
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sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
thats great that killerwatt, very informative for people who dont know the ins and outs. my gripe isnt actually about speeds people are getting its the fact the majority of people think there getting megabytes a second, and virigin media are blatently lying about allsorts to get customers. saying its fibre optic to there door, and agreeing on online chat that i can download at 20 megabytes a second. they are over glamorouzing the actual numbers and expecting people not to know sfa about bits and bytes, why dont they just say that there 20mb b/band is actually about 2.5 megabytes on a very good day? its all a load of bull S&%t.
 
K

KillerWatt

why dont they just say that there 20mb b/band is actually about 2.5 megabytes on a very good day?
It is actually less than that by the time you allow for the TCP/IP overheads.

As for whether they quote in bits or bytes, well both figures are valid and both figures are correct.

Another example.....I could say that I have 240V coming out of the sockets in my house and that would be correct.
However, I could also say that I have 340V or indeed 680V at the socket and those figures would also be correct (340V peak or 680V peak to peak when viewed on a scope).
 
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sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
the point is that the isp's dont or DO realize that joe public doesnt know the difference between a bit and a byte and most of us think that were getting megabytes a second, 20Mb/s does equate to roughlt 2MB/s rule of thumb is to devide by 10, as like you with all the extra bit's lost in numerous protocols that DSL is riddled with anyway.

ive found numerous sites where people didnt realize what there actually getting, do you think people would chuff about it so much if they realized there 8Mb connection was actually nearer .6Mega bytes a second and same figure for above 20Mb connection? the figures do work out if you know what a bit and a byte is, but know one does so that where the big con is beginning, people only know about bytes and megabytes so associate there 20Mb with mega Bytes and just think they arnt getting that cos of distance from exchange etc.
 
K

KillerWatt

I can see where you are coming from Sparky, but is it the ISP's fault if the customer doesn't know what they are buying?

For example, If I switch the cruise control on in my car and then kick back with my feet up and read a paper and subsequently crash.....is that the manufacturers fault or mine for not understanding what cruise control actually is?
 
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sparkyork

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
i dont think theres any comparison, this is something that people dont know about, and isp's are relying on that not knowing cos it makes there product sound better than it really is, even the F*%king clowns that you end up talking to quote megebytes a second download speeds, and they arnt talking about the converted figures there on about sync rates, it is in my oponion a total blag because we all generally know naff all about it. everyone operates in Mega bytes terminoligy they think there getting 4MB, 8MB or 20 MB thats it, if the isp like i said earlier actually said what the proper speed is in MB's then it would all be ok, who wants to know about bits and kilobits? unless you work in the data communications industry.
joe public isnt going to be that interested in it is the reason they dont state the figures in MegaBytes, cos its crap. this country should have all the cabling ripped up and put decent stuff back in take a look at Korea they get fantastic speeds that **** all over ours.
 
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