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Discuss bulbs blowing help please... in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

S

stick insect

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I'm a NICEIC domestic installer with years of electrical experience dating back to 1979 at college but I have a bad problem at a couple of shops owned by my parents. I would appreciate any help with this problem.

The 2 premises, one shop (105) rewired in 1979 and an adjoining house (103) light circuits rewired in the January. They have been converted to one large retail premises. When turning on the lights they have been suffering from blown bulbs, some even exploding and covering the room in glass shards.

example of frequency of blowing bulbs.
Wed 13 Feb 9.00am 105 downstairs middle room
Thurs 28 Feb 9.03am 105 upstairs front room
Sat 1 March 9.05am 105 downstairs front room
Thur 6 March 9.00am 105 downstairs middle room
Thurs 6 March 9.04am 103 upstairs front room
Sat 8 March 8.53am 103 downstairs front room
Mon 10 March 6.50pm 105 downstairs middle room

When these incidents have happened there has been a big bang and the fuse has tripped.

They have seperate consumer units, both split load with no common connection other than the electricity suppliers cable is looped through the wall in the cellar. The water supply is linked onto one meter by a plastic pipe and there are no earths linked apart from the one on the supply board in the first shop. The problem is apparent in both premises and has only started happening in the last 2 years. In this time 20 large, 3 storey town houses have been build directly behind the shops. The voltage is 242 volts measured using a Fluke 1653. alll tests show circuits to be in good condition with insulation resistance greater then 500 meg.

I am contacting the relevant suppliers to see if they can help.

Do you have any suggestions please?

David
 
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S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Hi

real long shot, but is supply PME by any chance?

you probably know what i am thnking.............
 
S

stick insect

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Hi Shakey, thanks for the reply, it is TN-S and has a good connection. when I came to the unit there was some verdigris and so I replaced the earthing block and ran a check with the 25amp earth test on my Robin PAT tester. all spot on. what theory had you reagrding the PME system? floating neutral?

David
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Hi Shakey, thanks for the reply, it is TN-S and has a good connection. when I came to the unit there was some verdigris and so I replaced the earthing block and ran a check with the 25amp earth test on my Robin PAT tester. all spot on. what theory had you reagrding the PME system? floating neutral?

David
dodgy neutral, not sure from your post if they are on seperate supplies or not (or seperate phases)

Just remember one many years ago when i was working in europe somewhere, two houses connected to seperate phases, the common neutral supply went o/c and both were connected across 415V. Bulbs, TV's things everywhere were poppin'

Like i said, long shot, but a dodgy connection ..........

Anyway, the grasping sound you can hear is the straw i am clutching at......:rolleyes:


or maybe you just got them at ten for a quid at 'Bulbs 'R' Us'?
 
S

stick insect

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
The supply comes in through the cellar wall and goes into the BS88 fuse holder, it then is serially connected through the wall to the other BS88 fuse holder in the next property ( 103). the earth come from the sheathing into a new earth block and an earth cable is then connected through the wall for the neighbours supply earth.

everthing else is fine in the property, computers, tills and the high power massage devices. Forgot to say they sell exclusive furniture and have an aromatherapy/ feng shui massage room......

bulbs are Osram or GE

David
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
just about the only thing that would cause a lamp to explode is if its getting 415,i heard about a thing called a swinging ground once ,cant remember exactly what it was but ,it had something to do with the supply transformer ,shorting out intermitedly ,could be it ,why not set up some sort of peak hold monitor or something ,
all the best now:):):)

Thats what it is spiritual power being induced,to much feng suie ****:)
 
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S

stick insect

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Hi Rumrunner, I will chase the electric authority for a speedy response to my request. Thankfully the two properties are with different suppliers so that may help....

I'll keep you posted.

David
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Hi David
yeah please keap me posted im interested in what this turns out to be,sounds like it is on the supply side,so you may have to be patient ,
all the very best in the whole happy world
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Yeah, be interested on this one as well.

been reading up a lot in the 17th edition of the effect of the LV side from faults on the HV side

How can they be with different suppliers if they are connected off form the same supply?

do you mean different DNO's?
 
S

stick insect

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
United utilities are going out in the next 3 hours, much better response than expected!. the supply is looped but they have different electricity providers EDF and British Gas in either property.

David
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Id ring the gas board as well ,there stupid enough to try and fix it ,oh and mind to tell whoever comes that ,rumrunner thinks it might be a swinging ground .:D
all the best and have a nice day;)
 
S

Shakey

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
United utilities are going out in the next 3 hours, much better response than expected!. the supply is looped but they have different electricity providers EDF and British Gas in either property.

David
Aah, got you, these the electricity suppliers, not the network operators;)
 
S

stick insect

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
@rumrunner, I could tell them the cellar uis a torture chamber. It was for me fitting a new consumer unit as there is 6 foot headroom and i'm 6foot 6!.

forgot to say the tenants father fitted a metal chandelier, didn't earth it and used terminal strip with 4mm of conducter hanging out. The terminal strip had been forced into a hole in the ceiling with the live rubbing on the metal mount at the top. for some reason the girl changing light bulbs kept saying she kept getting a tickle when she touched the light fitting.....

David
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
hi,
ha ha ha ,im only laughing because ive been there ,the one i was in had an inch of water on the floor after we pumped it out and a dead rat,which we put in a cardboard box ,because it ponged so much :eek:,i banged my head on a nail in the joist and my back seised up :),i had to connect a tempory lead accross the service fuse for the drill and a light ,and the bulb blew,the whole job was a total nightmare ,and to make it worse i was doing it as a favor,i cant remember every job ive ever done,but i will never forget that one,:mad:
on a serious note now ,have you rewired both propertys or is some of it still dodgy?
i am asking because if next door is on a different phase and ,i know its a long shot but just maybee the wiring has gotten muddled up and you could have 415 floating around
some how. better ask the young lady how tickly it was:D
good luck
 
W

wayne

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
in summary ;
supply side problem
probably over voltage or dodgy neutral
only time ive come across blown up fittings is when a digger went through a supply cable but i don't know the science
i'll be watching this thread
 
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