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A plumber on the last job that I was on complained that cables had been passed through the floor less than 30mm away from a gas pipe and that this was against regs, as an arc could cause a fire if there was a gas leak. I had not heard of this reg before, and also thought that if the cable and gas pipe were to have faults, 30mm would not make any difference to the potential risk of fire. Can anyone enlighten me perhaps?
 
S

sparkyork

not heard this one either, he could be thinking about min distance between lv and mains cables?? end at day so long as its not strapped to the side of the pipe i dont think it matters. more trades trying to tell you your job does my head in!! dont mind another spark saying stuff but plumbers just got on my boobies!
 
C

Cirrus

Plumbers are almost as thick as painters and as for knowing regs - don't get me started. I regularly run cables along gas pipes if I have to.
 
A plumber on the last job that I was on complained that cables had been passed through the floor less than 30mm away from a gas pipe and that this was against regs, as an arc could cause a fire if there was a gas leak. I had not heard of this reg before, and also thought that if the cable and gas pipe were to have faults, 30mm would not make any difference to the potential risk of fire. Can anyone enlighten me perhaps?

What a crock of ****. How many gas meters are located in cupboards under the stairs next to the main fuse/ consumer unit? There is far more potential for a gas explosion/fire to be caused by arcing in this situation than by having a cable located within 30mm of a gas pipe, by the arcing in a main switch or breaker.
 
W

wayne

in the 17th osg there is something about electrics in proximity to gas pipes and meter
 
R

rumrunner

What a crock of ****. How many gas meters are located in cupboards under the stairs next to the main fuse/ consumer unit? There is far more potential for a gas explosion/fire to be caused by arcing in this situation than by having a cable located within 30mm of a gas pipe, by the arcing in a main switch or breaker.
id just "flash" a neutral in con unit and pmsl as he legs it;) gas wont hurt you load of fuss about nowt ,:eek:
 
id just "flash" a neutral in con unit and pmsl as he legs it;) gas wont hurt you load of fuss about nowt ,:eek:
Exactly. If you expanded this plumber,s theory to the nth degree, then you may as well refuse to install any electrics whatsoever in a property that has a gas supply on the basis that the arcing of switchgear etc may cause a fire.On the other hand maybe his gas fitting is so ---- , he covers himself by making up wiring regs!!!
 
4

4x4 mark

the only reg that i can think of is when drilling through joists and the minimum distances between holes is twice the diameter of the largest hole is the gap between two holes, but nothing else springs to mind.
so how are you going to bond his gas pipe if you have to keep 30mm away from it at all times. plumbers :rolleyes::rolleyes: well back in the line for brains when they were issued, not last though cos that position belongs to boarders.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Thanks for all the replies, he had me worried for a moment, apparently he's known for picking holes and telling people how to do their job.

Good to see a healthy hatred of plumbers - the bane of an electricians life!
 
B

Bane

Thanks for all the replies, he had me worried for a moment, apparently he's known for picking holes and telling people how to do their job.

Good to see a healthy hatred of plumbers - the bane of an electricians life!
Please don't take my name in vain.
 
M

montybaber

oi you lot!!!:mad: I take offence all my family are plumbers:mad:



































































only joking they are cowboys too:D
 
B

Bright-spark

BS 6891:2005 requires that electrical equipment be seperated from gas pipes by a minimum of 150mm and electrical cables by seperated from gas pipes by a minimum of 25mm.

Looks like the plumber knows more than you this time round.

By the way forgot to say the seperation distance does not apply to protective bonding cables.
 
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BS 6891:2005 requires that electrical equipment be seperated from gas pipes by a minimum of 150mm and electrical cables by seperated from gas pipes by a minimum of 25mm.

Looks like the plumber knows more than you this time round.

By the way forgot to say the seperation distance does not apply to protective bonding cables.
MMM very interesting. Can I ask what BS 6891:2005 refers to?
 
C

clinger

Check out p18 of the new on-site guide!! Mine came through yesterday:D
 
S

sparkyork

Ahh please spill the beans. still waiting for my on site guide:)
gas installation pipes must be spaced:
a) at least 150 mm away from electricity meters, controls, electrical switches or sockets, dis boards or con units
b) AT LEAST 25mm from electricity cables

seperation of at least 25mm to be provided for domestic pipework up to 35mm. for pipework over 35mm then 50mm seperation is required. the seperation distance can be reduced if the gas pipe is pvc wrapped or a pane of insulating material is interposed
 
gas installation pipes must be spaced:
a) at least 150 mm away from electricity meters, controls, electrical switches or sockets, dis boards or con units
b) AT LEAST 25mm from electricity cables

seperation of at least 25mm to be provided for domestic pipework up to 35mm. for pipework over 35mm then 50mm seperation is required. the seperation distance can be reduced if the gas pipe is pvc wrapped or a pane of insulating material is interposed
Oh well looks like every property in the country is going to need remedial work carried out to rectify this then.
For crying out loud do they never get fed up with inventing rules and regs.
 
S

Shakey

gas installation pipes must be spaced:
a) at least 150 mm away from electricity meters, controls, electrical switches or sockets, dis boards or con units
b) AT LEAST 25mm from electricity cables

seperation of at least 25mm to be provided for domestic pipework up to 35mm. for pipework over 35mm then 50mm seperation is required. the seperation distance can be reduced if the gas pipe is pvc wrapped or a pane of insulating material is interposed
yes but we as sparks (even though I aint a proper one:p) must stand our ground as well.

I am in the middle of a rewire, and it is having gas fitted from outside(should have been Monday, but the gasman could not park directly outside the house, and so refused to do the job!!!!!).

Anyway the gas is coming in through the wall into the front room, so it works both ways, I can insist he keeps HIS pipes away from MY cables, which are already laid! First come first served and all that

And why do i think that the gas fitter will claim he has precedence and insist that i move my cables:rolleyes: Can feel a scrap coming on..........:)
 
S

sparkyork

yeah there a night mare arnt they! defo agree with the 1st come 1st served thang, i hate doing a new build after a plumbers been in, spesh with these new joists with knock outs in they take up all the room.

can be reversal on this tho as well, if you get in first they may pipe up to close to your cables and not tell you, then it comes to drilling 30 downlights in a kitchen and theres pipes all over!!
 
4

4x4 mark

but you are only talking about an inch of separation and less if it is pvc wrapped, most plumbers i work with buy the pvc stuff as i think it has to be identified in houses as a gas pipe, if you cant keep more than an inch away from a pipe then something is wrong.
 
A plumber on the last job that I was on complained that cables had been passed through the floor less than 30mm away from a gas pipe and that this was against regs, as an arc could cause a fire if there was a gas leak. I had not heard of this reg before, and also thought that if the cable and gas pipe were to have faults, 30mm would not make any difference to the potential risk of fire. Can anyone enlighten me perhaps?
Just got my copy of the new OSG today and page 18

Gas installation pipes must be spaced

a. at least 150mm away from electricity meters, controls, electrical switches or sockets, dbs or consumer units.

b. at least 25mm away from electricity cables.

i dont make the rules!!!!!

Mark
 
S

Shakey

Just got my copy of the new OSG today and page 18

Gas installation pipes must be spaced

a. at least 150mm away from electricity meters, controls, electrical switches or sockets, dbs or consumer units.

b. at least 25mm away from electricity cables.

i dont make the rules!!!!!

Mark
we do gas assessments, so i showed it to one my gas tutors/assessors

"oh yeah, thats been in for donkeys that has":eek:

So how many sparks here actually knew about this?

Whats the point of having rules that affect 2 trades and only telling one of them?

dont the 'powers that be talk to each other?'

(that was a rhetorical question by the way):eek:
 
A

andy8758

Excerpt from 18th Wiring Regs (currently being produced apparently):

5.3.4 No electrical cable is to be situated within 150mm of a toilet installation.
5.3.4.1 All electrical cables used for toilet extractor fans must be double insulated.

Well, gas is explosive isn't it?
 
Excerpt from 18th Wiring Regs (currently being produced apparently):

5.3.4 No electrical cable is to be situated within 150mm of a toilet installation.
5.3.4.1 All electrical cables used for toilet extractor fans must be double insulated.

Well, gas is explosive isn't it?

:):) Hahaha.

Serious question. What about toilet installations that use a macerator.
$0dding cable goes right into the $h!t mashin pump. Can't get closer than that!!

Maybe they'll invent a new one with a hand operated masher/pump
 
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W

wilson

osg says keep meters and control gear 150mm from gas pipe and cables at least 25mm may be this plumber bin on the one day course
 
B

boldspark

osg says keep meters and control gear 150mm from gas pipe and cables at least 25mm may be this plumber bin on the one day course
That is not exactly a vote of confidence for your average electrician.
 
S

snevitt17

i am afraid he is right,but also a lot of remarks made is right,it comes under the heading of PROXIMITY OF NON ELECTRICAL SERVICES,GAS AND WATER SERVICES HAVE TO BE KEPT AWAY FROM ELECTRICAL SERVICES/CABLES ETC, i think plumbers go on a 2 week course and they think they know everything, on a eicr form its only a code c3,or the old periodics a code 4,hope this helps
 
B

boldspark

... i think plumbers go on a 2 week course and they think they know everything...
Say what you will, the majority of "real" sparks didn't have a clue about this; half a dozen sneered before the first one appeared that actually knew his stuff. Even more embarrassing, it wasn't until 20 posts into the thread that finally someone came up with the easy solution: pvc protection of the copper.
Even worse, it is not until page 4 of the thread before somebody appears who actually knows that cables can not be run less than 25 mm from ANY metal pipe.
Meter tails, by the way, are not allowed within 150 mm of ANY metal pipe either; gas, water, or radiator pipes.
 

Doomed

-
Arms
Say what you will, the majority of "real" sparks didn't have a clue about this; half a dozen sneered before the first one appeared that actually knew his stuff. Even more embarrassing, it wasn't until 20 posts into the thread that finally someone came up with the easy solution: pvc protection of the copper.
Even worse, it is not until page 4 of the thread before somebody appears who actually knows that cables can not be run less than 25 mm from ANY metal pipe.
Meter tails, by the way, are not allowed within 150 mm of ANY metal pipe either; gas, water, or radiator pipes.
Already knew about the gas pipe seperation (do alot of work for a local heating company), but if we need this seperation from any pipe then how on earth are we supposed to wire into a boiler? So many jobs I go on where there is a real nest of cables and pipes just under the floor boards in boiler cupboards it would mean major work on each job to sort it out.
 
B

boldspark

Clearly, the majority of people do not care too much about sticking to the regs, as can be ascertained in most homes I work in. Faulty colour coding and substandard bonding are the rule rather than the exception, and the same goes for cables near pipes.
For the latter, the solution for those who do care to do the job to spec is ever so simple. Pvc insulation on the pipe where it is not practicable to stay more than 25 mm away.
 
K

Knobhead

What did you spend your 35 years doing? Because of the way you berate all electricians it certainly hasn’t in industry of any kind.
Just for information, I’ve worked on plants that consumed 21M Ft³ per day. Gas at a delivery pressure of 100PSI is even more unforgiving! Do your boilers use intrinsic circuits? Do you have to constantly monitor and regulate gas flow? Are the emissions constantly monitored?
 
G

Geordie Spark

Oh well looks like every property in the country is going to need remedial work carried out to rectify this then.
For crying out loud do they never get fed up with inventing rules and regs.
I seem to remember coming across this rule / reg in 2002 & it wasn't new then.
 
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