Discuss Cables and Zones in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
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4,317
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NORTHAMPTON
When house bashing new houses I used to take the view that if there was a light on the outside you could see it through the transverse no different to a socket in one bedroom backing on to another. the bit that I had trouble with was when a wall outside light is not where an exterior door is. Most cases I can move a double socket slightly or add an extra so that the outside light cable comes in inline with it.
 

Risteard

Respected Member
Messages
3,882
Location
Derry, Ireland
Don’t know what kind of metal conduit you use?
The metal conduit I’ve used would.
Strange, because I've seen someone drill right through concealed steel conduit before and hit the singles contained within. I'm pretty sure Guidance Notes explicitly state that conduit wouldn't meet that requirement too and therefore needs to be earthed.
 

spinlondon

Forum Mentor
Messages
11,077
Location
Harlow Essex
An unlucky one.
Here is the bit about mechanical protection form 522.6.204:
“(iv) be provided with mechanical protection against damage sufficient to prevent penetration of the cable by nails, screws and the like.”
Can’t see anything there about protecting against drill bits (lucky or unlucky ones).
That being said, in my experience, if you start drilling into a wall with a masonry bit, and hit conduit, the conduit either starts ringing like a bell, or the drill bit mushrooms.
 

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,317
Location
NORTHAMPTON
Use a lump of wood with a hole in it to bend the conduit, or make it up off site.
Doesn’t need earthing.
I can't see that happening especially when the electrician has just a days work wiring the house and is on another site the next day together with most domestic electricians/contractor not having one.
 

Risteard

Respected Member
Messages
3,882
Location
Derry, Ireland
And how would you earth the conduit with that being accessible?
Mount a BESA box - say a through box for argument's sake on the end of it in the roofspace and a stuffing gland on the other end. Bring the cables in with a 4mm^2 earth and lug that and connect to the BESA box with an M4.
 

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,317
Location
NORTHAMPTON
Mount a BESA box - say a through box for argument's sake on the end of it in the roofspace and a stuffing gland on the other end. Bring the cables in with a 4mm^2 earth and lug that and connect to the BESA box with an M4.
No disrespect, but whilst it is a solution realistically I can't see that happening on the domestic wiring scene. Outside lights are usually taken from the local downstairs lighting circuit.
 

GBDamo

Subscribed Member
Messages
840
Location
UK
Bit left field but you could use an appliance plate at ceiling height in line with the outside light creating a zone in a line below.

Run the switch wire from this to the switch and back using the zone at the top of the wall and drop down to switch.

Then drop the switched live/N&E down from the appliance plate to the height of the O/S light and blast straight through.
 

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Bellendian

Regular EF Member
Messages
199
Location
Gatwick
I thought the safe zones only extended to the other side of the wall, when the wall is less than 100mm thick? Which is fine for internal partitions, but a bit tricky on an external wall. Can't remember where I saw that, so happy to be corrected....
In these situations I try to align the light and the switch, or go down the diagonal drilling approach.
 

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,317
Location
NORTHAMPTON
Bit left field but you could use an appliance plate at ceiling height in line with the outside light creating a zone in a line below.

Run the switch wire from this to the switch and back using the zone at the top of the wall and drop down to switch.

Then drop the switched live/N&E down from the appliance plate to the height of the O/S light and blast straight through.
Do you mean some sort of blank plate?
 

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,317
Location
NORTHAMPTON
I thought the safe zones only extended to the other side of the wall, when the wall is less than 100mm thick? Which is fine for internal partitions, but a bit tricky on an external wall. Can't remember where I saw that, so happy to be corrected....
In these situations I try to align the light and the switch, or go down the diagonal drilling approach.
I think we agreed that in earlier posts.
 

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,317
Location
NORTHAMPTON
So what you are saying is that if there is an outside wall light that on the inside wall if there is not anything to indicate the cable comes down the internal wall, not in a zone you would put a flex outlet or box with a blank plate in the wall. That's going to look great on a wall to have a random accessory plate there. A little way back I did post that I would consider installing a socket in line with outside lighting cable at least it wouldn't look out of place.
 

Bellendian

Regular EF Member
Messages
199
Location
Gatwick
If anyone remembers that bloke BAS from some of the DIY forums....he used to go on and on and on...about this amongst everything else!
Safe zone is only formed by an accessory for cables serving that accessory...so the socket doesnt comply to the letter of the regs...however common sense suggests it would help things.
That said I got a call from a tenant the other day that couldn't work out why the electrics tripped when they put a mirror up....directly above a socket!
 

GBDamo

Subscribed Member
Messages
840
Location
UK
So what you are saying is that if there is an outside wall light that on the inside wall if there is not anything to indicate the cable comes down the internal wall, not in a zone you would put a flex outlet or box with a blank plate in the wall. That's going to look great on a wall to have a random accessory plate there. A little way back I did post that I would consider installing a socket in line with outside lighting cable at least it wouldn't look out of place.
Its a solution to a problem, never said it was perfect.

Picky sod:p
 

Bellendian

Regular EF Member
Messages
199
Location
Gatwick
No....book in the office. However, I do recall looking it up some years back and realising that the master of pedantry was correct!
 

anthonybragg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
4,317
Location
NORTHAMPTON
Its a solution to a problem, never said it was perfect.

Picky sod:p
I am not a Picky sod and every method that has been posted is a way of making the situation compliant it is just not aesthetically pleasing for a random blank plate being there and I don't think it would be acceptable I know it would 100% be not in a new build.
 

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