B
basejumper31
Prefix - I've tried to post this in automotive, but it would not let me. This may be because I have not been recently active. Apologies if this is the wrong platform for this post.
Firstly- my apologies if I have posted this in the wrong section - I am nota qualified or trainee electrician. I am simply someone who has akeen interest in electronics, and I periodically help my friend (whois qualified, but alas is presently on holiday abroad and I cannotget in touch with him - sods law) with work he does commercially,partly because it interests me, and partly because I hope to one dayget qualified myself (last year I actually embarked on a ElectricalInstallations course at a local college, before finding out it wouldcost me £16k, because I'm over 25 and can't get access to anyfunding – broke my heart at the time, but that's another story).with a view to eventually completing a course in electronics. I knowit will be a long road.
Anyway.
I'mreally hoping someone can help me out here. I know it's a long postand I sincerely appreciate anyone who takes the time to read it andtry to help me with any of my questions. It has been a long time(year or more) since I've used this site, and I know there are strictrules about what advice can be sought, and by whom, in order not toencourage people to do dangerous things they shouldn't be doing, orequally to avoid disenfranchising qualified electricians frompotential work. So can I re-iterate that I am not intending to offendanyone or break any rules, and hopefully this post is within thescope of what is acceptable here.
I'mconverting my van, ready for a snowboarding trip abroad in threeweeks time. I've pretty much finished the interior, includinginsulation, beds, gas cooker etc, my one remaining challenge (which Iam actually looking forward to) is the electrical system.
Justto clarify, I am working solidly over the next three weeks, until theday I'm due to leave for Europe, to pick up a couple of friends whoare coming along for a the trip. The amount of time I have left toset up the electrical system is limited, and my funds are also verylimited. If I have time/really run into serious problems, I will gosee an auto-electrician, and ask them to install the electrics forme. I'm sure there will be those of you who would read this post andrespond with something to the effect of “you've left it too late /you need to see an auto-electrician in order not to risk setting thevan on fire / blowing your self up” etc etc, and I acknowledge suchresponses (and the fact that they may well be a sensible responses).But it is ever likely that I simply wont have time to do this, andthat I will just wire the electrics up myself (to be honest I'mconfident that I know what I'm doing well enough to do a safe job ofit) with whatever advice I can (or cannot) muster. I am not going totake the van with no electrical system in it, and I find myselfwishing I had addressed all this with my friend before he went onholiday - but here we are, and I am just going to do my best withwhatever help I can or can't obtain, and I am certain there will beno fires and no explosions - at least not due to my human error.
Asintimated above, I have what I would consider to be a fairly solidunderstanding of basic electrics, circuits etc, and moreover, I'vegot an ebook (Van2Home, written by Mike Hudson, aka Vandog Traveller)which has a really good, detailed chapter (including wiring diagrams)on how to wire up the electrical system. My desired electrical systemis almost identical to the one he has fitted in his van. Thecomponents I've bought are almost all exactly the same as the oneshe's bought and fitted in his van. Even so, the chapter is not 100%explanatory and there are some remaining questions which I am seekingadvice about here.
Incase this is going to help people who might potentially have advicefor me, the components I've already bought / already own, and are inthe van waiting to be wired up, include:
One230AH 12v leisure battery
12vleisure battery terminal connectors
Acrimping kit with lots of male and female connectors (fairly smallgauge, at least 4mm2)
aratcheted crimping tool
plentyof 4mm2 electrical cable (for wiring up the lights and extractor fan– I have accounted for voltage drop)
10mm2electrical cable, connectors and bolts (to connect the main batteryto the leisure battery via split charge relay)
16mm2electrical cable, connectors and bolts (for wiring the leisurebattery up to the main control board (i.e. the blade fusebox)
Heatshrink sleeving of various sizes to insulate all the above wiregauges
avariety of blade fuses with many spares of each type, (1amp, 5 amp,20 amp, and lots in between, basically most of the common ones)
A12 volt, 30 watt extractor fan
Amultimeter diagnostic device
6x 12v switches
A12v 30amp self switching volt-sensing split charge relay
twobattery isolator 12volt 100amp kill-switches (one to be used as aleisure battery shut-off switch, and another one for the split chargerelay, as per the ebook instructions)
A6 way auto blade fuse box holder
10x single blade fuse holders (for spares and future expansion Iguess)
a12v digital voltage meter readout LED display (3-30amp, as stated inthe ebook)
a12v analogue current meter readout (0-30amp, as stated in the ebook)
Theonly things I still need to buy (as far as I can tell) are:
-2 x 0.8 watt 12 volt LED lights
-an adequate sized bolt and shake-proof washer for connecting thebattery and circuit negatives to a bare metal 'earth' point on thevan body
-maybe a 20 amp 12 volt midi fuse and holder (please see question 1)
Thethings I want my electrical system to be able to power (at varioustimes, not all at once):
-The extractor fan (30 watts)
-The lights (I'm intending to buy some basic 0.8 watt (or similar) 12volt LED lights in the next day or so)
-A few phone chargers and go-pro action camera battery charger (verylow wattage) through the inverter
-A laptop (40 watts) through the inverter
Ina nutshell, what I want to do (or rather, what the wiring diagram inthe ebook tells me to do) is to connect the leisure battery to a 20amp battery fuse (which the book says should be a midi fuse), afterwhich the leisure battery is connected to the main battery via thevolt-sensing split charge relay, (albeit replacing the 30 amp wirewhich came with the split charge relay with 10mm2 (70 amp) wire (asadvised in the ebook guide im using) in order to enable fasterrecharging of the leisure battery.) The cable between the mainbattery and the leisure circuit is, in the ebook, fitted with a relayfuse (20 amp blade fuse) and relay kill-switch, The leisure circuitthen leads to a leisure battery kill-switch, after which it leads tothe three diagnostic components (voltage monitor (of which the -ivecable then connects back to the 'ground' connection on the van body),current and battery level indicators) and then finally leads to theblade fusebox, which splits off leading to the extractor, lights andinverter circuits, all of which then lead back to the earthconnection fixed to the bare van metal 'earth' or -ive return currentpoint.
AsI've said above, the ebook has step-by-step instructions, withpictures and wiring diagrams (and safety advice) about how to wireall this up. However, the things I'm still not sure about are asfollows:
1.Do I need a midi fuse as my battery fuse? Or can I just use a 20 ampblade fuse? On another forum (camper van type forum), someone told methat I should just be able to use a 20 amp blade fuse for this. But Iam left wondering whether it will be possible (or advisable?) toconnect a 16mm2 cable coming from the +ive leisure battery terminal,directly to a 20 amp blade fuse. Would the potential draw/current notbe too high for a blade fuse? They're quite skinny and I'm not evensure how I'd go about connecting a 16mm2 wire to a blade fuse, sincealthough I have some individual blade fuse holders, the wires comingoff them are of a far smaller gauge, perhaps 2.5mm2.
2.In the ebook, he has solar panels (I don't have any solar panels) ashis main method of charging his leisure battery, so when he installedhis volt-sensing split charge relay, he used the standard 30 ampcable which comes with the relay (I have the exact same relay heused) because the relay was just a backup charging method for his setup. He says in the ebook that he would have replaced this 30 ampcable with at least 10mm2 (70 amp) cable if the relay was his primarymethod of recharging the leisure battery (whereas for me, it isprobably going to be my only method of recharging (apart from a 800watt generator and a 240v car battery charger, but this will beuseless if it is snowing or raining hard, i.e. too dangerous to usethe generator), hence why I bought the 10mm2 cable). Can I just hookup the 10mm2 cable directly to the main van battery +ive terminal,and if so, how would I go about fusing this connection? Same issue asquestion 1 really, the single blade fuse holders I have have wirescoming off them which are way thinner than the 10mm2 cable, so unlessI'm mistaken, that would create a serious bottle-neck and, I'mguessing, therefore largely negate the benefit of having the 10mm2cable the rest of the way between the main and leisure batteries?
3.If I leave the split charge repay on all the time, will it affect theextent to which the main van battery is recharged by the alternator?Temperatures where I'm going can drop to minus 20 degrees celcius,and I know batteries don't like cold. I don't want to reduce theextent to which my main battery is getting recharged by thealternator, and find myself with a flat main battery. I'm sure somepeople might point out the other issues with temps that low, likeengine block / fuel pump seizing up etc, but I've done this before ina van (Albeit someone else's van), and during the daytime, the tempscome back up to around zero, and after some hours the engine iscrankable again. Sometimes you have to wait a day or two for the sunto come out, but you can always snowboard in the mean time, it's notthat bad
I'msure there are more questions but I can't think of them right now.Any responses to the above (and helpful responses at all) would bevery greatly appreciated.
N.B.I was hoping to also install a campsite 230v mains hookup, which Ihave also bought, but am feeling at this stage that this is a steptoo far in the time available, and so I am currently planning to onlyuse the split charge relay (with the 10mm2 cable instead of thestandard gauge one) to recharge my leisure battery. I have the mainsinlet socket and an extension cable for it, and a euro-plug adapterfor it, but as I say, at this point in time, this seems tooambitious, so I'll leave out questions about this for now.
Thankyou very much indeed to anyone who has taken the time to read this,and as I said above, I'd really appreciate all and any helpfulfeedback about the questions above, or any other advice.
basejumper31
Firstly- my apologies if I have posted this in the wrong section - I am nota qualified or trainee electrician. I am simply someone who has akeen interest in electronics, and I periodically help my friend (whois qualified, but alas is presently on holiday abroad and I cannotget in touch with him - sods law) with work he does commercially,partly because it interests me, and partly because I hope to one dayget qualified myself (last year I actually embarked on a ElectricalInstallations course at a local college, before finding out it wouldcost me £16k, because I'm over 25 and can't get access to anyfunding – broke my heart at the time, but that's another story).with a view to eventually completing a course in electronics. I knowit will be a long road.
Anyway.
I'mreally hoping someone can help me out here. I know it's a long postand I sincerely appreciate anyone who takes the time to read it andtry to help me with any of my questions. It has been a long time(year or more) since I've used this site, and I know there are strictrules about what advice can be sought, and by whom, in order not toencourage people to do dangerous things they shouldn't be doing, orequally to avoid disenfranchising qualified electricians frompotential work. So can I re-iterate that I am not intending to offendanyone or break any rules, and hopefully this post is within thescope of what is acceptable here.
I'mconverting my van, ready for a snowboarding trip abroad in threeweeks time. I've pretty much finished the interior, includinginsulation, beds, gas cooker etc, my one remaining challenge (which Iam actually looking forward to) is the electrical system.
Justto clarify, I am working solidly over the next three weeks, until theday I'm due to leave for Europe, to pick up a couple of friends whoare coming along for a the trip. The amount of time I have left toset up the electrical system is limited, and my funds are also verylimited. If I have time/really run into serious problems, I will gosee an auto-electrician, and ask them to install the electrics forme. I'm sure there will be those of you who would read this post andrespond with something to the effect of “you've left it too late /you need to see an auto-electrician in order not to risk setting thevan on fire / blowing your self up” etc etc, and I acknowledge suchresponses (and the fact that they may well be a sensible responses).But it is ever likely that I simply wont have time to do this, andthat I will just wire the electrics up myself (to be honest I'mconfident that I know what I'm doing well enough to do a safe job ofit) with whatever advice I can (or cannot) muster. I am not going totake the van with no electrical system in it, and I find myselfwishing I had addressed all this with my friend before he went onholiday - but here we are, and I am just going to do my best withwhatever help I can or can't obtain, and I am certain there will beno fires and no explosions - at least not due to my human error.
Asintimated above, I have what I would consider to be a fairly solidunderstanding of basic electrics, circuits etc, and moreover, I'vegot an ebook (Van2Home, written by Mike Hudson, aka Vandog Traveller)which has a really good, detailed chapter (including wiring diagrams)on how to wire up the electrical system. My desired electrical systemis almost identical to the one he has fitted in his van. Thecomponents I've bought are almost all exactly the same as the oneshe's bought and fitted in his van. Even so, the chapter is not 100%explanatory and there are some remaining questions which I am seekingadvice about here.
Incase this is going to help people who might potentially have advicefor me, the components I've already bought / already own, and are inthe van waiting to be wired up, include:
One230AH 12v leisure battery
12vleisure battery terminal connectors
Acrimping kit with lots of male and female connectors (fairly smallgauge, at least 4mm2)
aratcheted crimping tool
plentyof 4mm2 electrical cable (for wiring up the lights and extractor fan– I have accounted for voltage drop)
10mm2electrical cable, connectors and bolts (to connect the main batteryto the leisure battery via split charge relay)
16mm2electrical cable, connectors and bolts (for wiring the leisurebattery up to the main control board (i.e. the blade fusebox)
Heatshrink sleeving of various sizes to insulate all the above wiregauges
avariety of blade fuses with many spares of each type, (1amp, 5 amp,20 amp, and lots in between, basically most of the common ones)
A12 volt, 30 watt extractor fan
Amultimeter diagnostic device
6x 12v switches
A12v 30amp self switching volt-sensing split charge relay
twobattery isolator 12volt 100amp kill-switches (one to be used as aleisure battery shut-off switch, and another one for the split chargerelay, as per the ebook instructions)
A6 way auto blade fuse box holder
10x single blade fuse holders (for spares and future expansion Iguess)
a12v digital voltage meter readout LED display (3-30amp, as stated inthe ebook)
a12v analogue current meter readout (0-30amp, as stated in the ebook)
- a 12v battery level readout indicator
a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter (I am familiar with inverters, I've used a MSW inverter for years with no problems, just fancied upgrading to protect delicate electronic devices which might need charging on the trip)
Theonly things I still need to buy (as far as I can tell) are:
-2 x 0.8 watt 12 volt LED lights
-an adequate sized bolt and shake-proof washer for connecting thebattery and circuit negatives to a bare metal 'earth' point on thevan body
-maybe a 20 amp 12 volt midi fuse and holder (please see question 1)
Thethings I want my electrical system to be able to power (at varioustimes, not all at once):
-The extractor fan (30 watts)
-The lights (I'm intending to buy some basic 0.8 watt (or similar) 12volt LED lights in the next day or so)
-A few phone chargers and go-pro action camera battery charger (verylow wattage) through the inverter
-A laptop (40 watts) through the inverter
Ina nutshell, what I want to do (or rather, what the wiring diagram inthe ebook tells me to do) is to connect the leisure battery to a 20amp battery fuse (which the book says should be a midi fuse), afterwhich the leisure battery is connected to the main battery via thevolt-sensing split charge relay, (albeit replacing the 30 amp wirewhich came with the split charge relay with 10mm2 (70 amp) wire (asadvised in the ebook guide im using) in order to enable fasterrecharging of the leisure battery.) The cable between the mainbattery and the leisure circuit is, in the ebook, fitted with a relayfuse (20 amp blade fuse) and relay kill-switch, The leisure circuitthen leads to a leisure battery kill-switch, after which it leads tothe three diagnostic components (voltage monitor (of which the -ivecable then connects back to the 'ground' connection on the van body),current and battery level indicators) and then finally leads to theblade fusebox, which splits off leading to the extractor, lights andinverter circuits, all of which then lead back to the earthconnection fixed to the bare van metal 'earth' or -ive return currentpoint.
AsI've said above, the ebook has step-by-step instructions, withpictures and wiring diagrams (and safety advice) about how to wireall this up. However, the things I'm still not sure about are asfollows:
1.Do I need a midi fuse as my battery fuse? Or can I just use a 20 ampblade fuse? On another forum (camper van type forum), someone told methat I should just be able to use a 20 amp blade fuse for this. But Iam left wondering whether it will be possible (or advisable?) toconnect a 16mm2 cable coming from the +ive leisure battery terminal,directly to a 20 amp blade fuse. Would the potential draw/current notbe too high for a blade fuse? They're quite skinny and I'm not evensure how I'd go about connecting a 16mm2 wire to a blade fuse, sincealthough I have some individual blade fuse holders, the wires comingoff them are of a far smaller gauge, perhaps 2.5mm2.
2.In the ebook, he has solar panels (I don't have any solar panels) ashis main method of charging his leisure battery, so when he installedhis volt-sensing split charge relay, he used the standard 30 ampcable which comes with the relay (I have the exact same relay heused) because the relay was just a backup charging method for his setup. He says in the ebook that he would have replaced this 30 ampcable with at least 10mm2 (70 amp) cable if the relay was his primarymethod of recharging the leisure battery (whereas for me, it isprobably going to be my only method of recharging (apart from a 800watt generator and a 240v car battery charger, but this will beuseless if it is snowing or raining hard, i.e. too dangerous to usethe generator), hence why I bought the 10mm2 cable). Can I just hookup the 10mm2 cable directly to the main van battery +ive terminal,and if so, how would I go about fusing this connection? Same issue asquestion 1 really, the single blade fuse holders I have have wirescoming off them which are way thinner than the 10mm2 cable, so unlessI'm mistaken, that would create a serious bottle-neck and, I'mguessing, therefore largely negate the benefit of having the 10mm2cable the rest of the way between the main and leisure batteries?
3.If I leave the split charge repay on all the time, will it affect theextent to which the main van battery is recharged by the alternator?Temperatures where I'm going can drop to minus 20 degrees celcius,and I know batteries don't like cold. I don't want to reduce theextent to which my main battery is getting recharged by thealternator, and find myself with a flat main battery. I'm sure somepeople might point out the other issues with temps that low, likeengine block / fuel pump seizing up etc, but I've done this before ina van (Albeit someone else's van), and during the daytime, the tempscome back up to around zero, and after some hours the engine iscrankable again. Sometimes you have to wait a day or two for the sunto come out, but you can always snowboard in the mean time, it's notthat bad
I'msure there are more questions but I can't think of them right now.Any responses to the above (and helpful responses at all) would bevery greatly appreciated.
N.B.I was hoping to also install a campsite 230v mains hookup, which Ihave also bought, but am feeling at this stage that this is a steptoo far in the time available, and so I am currently planning to onlyuse the split charge relay (with the 10mm2 cable instead of thestandard gauge one) to recharge my leisure battery. I have the mainsinlet socket and an extension cable for it, and a euro-plug adapterfor it, but as I say, at this point in time, this seems tooambitious, so I'll leave out questions about this for now.
Thankyou very much indeed to anyone who has taken the time to read this,and as I said above, I'd really appreciate all and any helpfulfeedback about the questions above, or any other advice.
basejumper31
