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J

jimmy_one_ball

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Hi guys

Did an EICR last week in a council house and the occupant has complained to the council that during my testing I've damaged her TV! I did an insulation resistance test with line and neutral linked together, to earth. I normally do it at 250V then, if the reading is healthy, at 500V which I did in this case and recorded 140MegOhms. Also i usually switch off the sockets without unplugging the accessories but I can't actually remember switching the TV socket off on this occasion so it may have been in the on position. So is it possible to damage a TV at 500V with L+N together? I didn't test line to neutral seperately.

I went back and just checked the plug top and cordset and they are fine so maybe its an internal fuse that has operated. It's an LG LED TV and it's completely dead. Penny for your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

J.O.B.
 
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M

Mark_Burgess

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  • #3
Can you remember if it was the same TV that was there last week?

Need to make sure these sods have not swapped it for another.

Its a bit strange as linking L and N is supposed to stop that from happening. I am glad I am paranoid and always unplug everything.
 
G

Guest111

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
seen this before years ago company replaced a load of plasma tv,s before I stopped it, same tv being passed around different houses.Boss just gave them a new tv and didn,t take old one which got passed on to next person.Stopped when I took the broken tv away.
 
After one decent homes rewire, Jabba The Hutt who inhabited the hovel (sorry I meant house, my fingers slipped) got in touch with tenant liaison and told them the night after we had finished there was a surge which damaged beyond repair her brand new (yeah right) fridge freezer (lots of other appliances were plugged in at the time but only this was damaged...hmmmm)
Furthermore she mentioned me by name and claimed that I had been round that morning and acknowledged that it had happened AND that it was my fault. After tenant liaison helped me recover from my laughing fit they rejected the claim only to receive a letter from a solicitor which stated something along the lines of "The new electricity I had installed was faulty"
Yeah the new electricity isn't a patch on the old stuff!
Chancers mate, the world is riddled with them. Tell them to prove it.
 
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IT equipment does have an earth rail which can still damage componants, hence why pc's must be disconnected from circuits being IR'd.
I know most tv's used to be double insulated class2 but more and more do now seem to have an earth so iv'e noticed, so could be the case here. Bit of luck it is just a fast blow fuse on it but i would not want to play with it if in your shoes.
If it has damaged it were only talking a tv so not the end of the world, if it was me just pay a £60 tv man callout and if it has gone pop stick it on the insurance or pay a new one, sounds like a coucil contract you have so not worth losing it over a tv, accidents happen so don't let it eat you up.
 
Funny how it always happens in Rented houses, I had it once on a test where I heard this noise and the bloke came in and said his computers just 'blown up' and must of been something you were doing. I said thats funny mate as I was just filling out paperwork! He then got really angry with me and I said 'numbers on the back of the van mate'
 
IT equipment does have an earth rail which can still damage componants, hence why pc's must be disconnected from circuits being IR'd.
I know most tv's used to be double insulated class2 but more and more do now seem to have an earth so iv'e noticed, so could be the case here. Bit of luck it is just a fast blow fuse on it but i would not want to play with it if in your shoes.
If it has damaged it were only talking a tv so not the end of the world, if it was me just pay a £60 tv man callout and if it has gone pop stick it on the insurance or pay a new one, sounds like a coucil contract you have so not worth losing it over a tv, accidents happen so don't let it eat you up.
Disagree strongly, if he accepts liability on this one word will spread like wildfire and if he goes back to that estate for any more testing there will be an avalanche of claims from the less than scrupulous. His premiums will rise exponentially
Stand your ground on this one mate
 
S

Swicade

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
End of the day there's no way you blew the TV up because you ALWAYS unplug every appliance before doing any testing because otherwise you could get a wrong test result....

That's what you ALWAYS do without question....

I'm right aint i?




Just *nod* yes and stick with it....you know it's the right thing to do *nods slowly*
 

topquark

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Mentor
Arms
If you're IR testing with L+N to Earth @500V the only way that might cause a problem would be if there was an N-E reversal somewhere on a circuit.
 
If you're IR testing with L+N to Earth @500V the only way that might cause a problem would be if there was an N-E reversal somewhere on a circuit.
However he has proven that there wasn't by following the full and correct method for testing an RFC
Nudge nudge wink wink
 
M

Mainman

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Disagree strongly, if he accepts liability on this one word will spread like wildfire and if he goes back to that estate for any more testing there will be an avalanche of claims from the less than scrupulous. His premiums will rise exponentially
Stand your ground on this one mate
Quite right. Linking Line and Neutral keeps everything at same potential but seeing as "it was unplugged" there was no chance of it blowing. We had council rewire and the tenant wanted us to move a socket - next it came the redecoration because of the mess and holes left - we made the mistake of offering a small fee, not for the damage but for the delay in repositioning the socket. Two weeks later it was her neighbour wanted a socket repositioned after the rewire. We refused because she marked the positions. Next she said she wanted new carpets due to the mess. We refused as we didn't use paint or nail varnish!! SEVEN months later a solicitors letter saying we hit a gas pipe and she was overcome with fumes for seven months.

Our insurance company investigated and discovered the gas fitter who gave her the report was her brother. TV always show cowboy builders but don't mention tenants from hell
 

Strima

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Arms
Esteemed
I'm pretty sure you unplugged the TV...
 
R

Richard

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
Had something similar before, but with my mother in laws £8000 canvas printer...safe to say I lost a bit of sleep over that one!! luckily it was the fact I had forgotten to switch it back on that threw her!
 
1

1shortcircuit

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
I think members should remember this is on the "Public" part of the forum.

I just Googled "Can IR testing blow TV" and this thread came up on the 9th listing.

So anyone who is trying it on now could have screenshots of everyone's replies which would create doubt that a proper job has been done.

Just saying;)

Good Luck, Sounds like you're dealing with a "Try it on type".

Subjects like this should be posted in the Arms so if the OP qualifies for that area then I say get your bottom over there along with this thread PRONTO

:thumbsup
 
K

kenny james

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
I'm pretty sure you unplugged the TV... (your pretty sure he unplugged the tv?.....I KNOW THAT HE UNPLUGGED THE TV BECAUSE HE TOLD ME IN THE PUB THAT NIGHT!).
 
P

PC Electrics

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
No way Jose!!

The TV will be a class II device with no earth conductor. If you get a chance to, check that - I am 98% certain you will find the plug has a plastic earth pin. Therefore, IR testing cannot have damaged it.

If you get to see the TV again, take a picture of the label with the serial number on your phone.

If you know the model, download the instructions from the manufacturers site to see if it says it is class II. BTW, my lads both have LG TVs of differing models, both are class II, as is my Panasonic plasma.
 
K

kenny james

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
joking aside.....jimmy_one_ball you said that you normally switch off at the sockets but leave the appliances still plugged in?. i dont know if somebody can correct me if i am wrong but if the sockets are single pole and not double pole types would the I/R test voltage not travel through the neutral into the appliance connected (unless polarity reversed!) even if the switch was off and the appliance was still plugged in?
 

topquark

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Mentor
Arms
joking aside.....jimmy_one_ball you said that you normally switch off at the sockets but leave the appliances still plugged in?. i dont know if somebody can correct me if i am wrong but if the sockets are single pole and not double pole types would the I/R test voltage not travel through the neutral into the appliance connected (unless polarity reversed!) even if the switch was off and the appliance was still plugged in?
Yep, Always unplug for an RFC.
 
joking aside.....jimmy_one_ball you said that you normally switch off at the sockets but leave the appliances still plugged in?. i dont know if somebody can correct me if i am wrong but if the sockets are single pole and not double pole types would the I/R test voltage not travel through the neutral into the appliance connected (unless polarity reversed!) even if the switch was off and the appliance was still plugged in?
Yes, but there is no circuit between neutral and earth so it would be impossible to cause any damage.The only way an IR test will cause damage to plugged in items is between live and neutral which we do not test on EICR.
 
I got hit for a £3000 food prep machine after PAT testing in the local school kitchen. Subbie was using my tester and IR tested it. No obvious electronics, no warning label from manufacturer. Electrolux divided on opinion on whether it would be damaged or not. (Design dept said no, testing dept said yes) Subbies insurance wouldn't cover it as I left it too long before bring up the subject, (1 month as we were waiting for the manufacturers report) I had to claim on insurance.
It does happen even with L-N to earth as the seaward primetest pat tester conducts all iR readings this way.
Sorry for your loss.....
 
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J

jimmy_one_ball

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
Thanks for your thoughts fellas, very much appreciated. The cord set did have a cpc in it but didn't notice weather the earth pin was plastic or not, very good point though. Anyway, lesson learned, unplug unplug unplug! The occupant will get a TV repair man out at their own expense and consider his opinion before persuing it with my employer.

All the best lads
 
P

Plonker 3

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Well I would ask that if they are wiling to pay then you choose the person who is going to asses the damage. At least then you know they will be independent.

May be worth checking with the neighbors too to see if there was a power cut between your visit and when the damage was reported, as a surge could cause the damage but would look like it had been done by yourself.
 

UKMeterman

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Arms
Well,
Look up the voltage for both standard insulation tests of portable applainces (500V) and also the voltage for a class 1 flash test. The TV should be able to withstand twice of the peak of the mains voltage (678V) without problems. If your 500V megger did in the TV then it was faulty by design or manufacture!
 
J

jimmymac

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27
I'd get your MFT looked at, maybe it caused today's black out in India as well.......lol
 
S

Swicade

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
The Blackout in India was down to call center overload....at least it stopped all the 'international' calls at home from 'Geoffrey' (with a distinct indian accent) from 'Uk services survey' asking me what gas/electricity provider i use...
 
J

jimmy_one_ball

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
Good point UKM, thanks for that, wish I'd thought of that at the time! If this TV repair man blames me then I'll throw that at him, thats a beauty, cheers!
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
Hi guys

Did an EICR last week in a council house and the occupant has complained to the council that during my testing I've damaged her TV! I did an insulation resistance test with line and neutral linked together, to earth. I normally do it at 250V then, if the reading is healthy, at 500V which I did in this case and recorded 140MegOhms. Also i usually switch off the sockets without unplugging the accessories but I can't actually remember switching the TV socket off on this occasion so it may have been in the on position. So is it possible to damage a TV at 500V with L+N together? I didn't test line to neutral seperately.

I went back and just checked the plug top and cordset and they are fine so maybe its an internal fuse that has operated. It's an LG LED TV and it's completely dead. Penny for your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

J.O.B.
the IR test you performed here is whats known as a `limited test`...so, did you agree this first with the person ordering the test..and any other interested parties?.....was it noted as such..in the `limitations` box?...
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #31
and yes...you are right to IR test at 250V first....just to be sure before you give it the 500...
 
J

jimmy_one_ball

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #32
No mate but I did LIM the Line to Neutral test out on the Shcedule of Test Results assuming that is the norm for an EICR based on the idea that L to N is only performed on initial verifications, my supervisor agreed with that (thats in the GN3). The PAT test procedure from UKMeterman has sealed it for me, the TV should be able to withstand that!

Also I am performing 3 or 4 EICR's a day the moment and hundreds of other TV's have survived this procedure
 
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