Can I get work certified

[Sadsyndrome]

Hello. I have a quick question for registered sparks on here.

Can/ will / do you certify notifiable work done by others?

I guess I’d have to pay LABC some fee (I’m waiting for a response from them) or is that part of the certification process you do? I appreciate I’d also need to get hold of a torque screwdriver and mft

Background
I trained and qualified as an Industrial electrician and did a 4 year apprenticeship albeit back in the 1980s, long since left the trade.

I would like to change CU (existing one has single RCD protecting all 6 MCBs). At the same time I will upgrade tails to 25mm because smart meter installer told me I should, despite tails being adequate for past 37 years. I realise I have to get work certified and also notify LABC. I have read so many articles that state it is illegal for registered sparks to certify work done by others but I just read on the official Part P document on the gov website that I CAN use a registered third party to certify work. I’m confused about what is correct and just wanted to know what your views are.

Thanks

 

[Alan-N]

Hello. I have a quick question for registered sparks on here.

Can/ will / do you certify notifiable work done by others?

I guess I’d have to pay LABC some fee (I’m waiting for a response from them) or is that part of the certification process you do? I appreciate I’d also need to get hold of a torque screwdriver and mft

Background
I trained and qualified as an Industrial electrician and did a 4 year apprenticeship albeit back in the 1980s, long since left the trade.

I would like to change CU (existing one has single RCD protecting all 6 MCBs). At the same time I will upgrade tails to 25mm because smart meter installer told me I should, despite tails being adequate for past 37 years. I realise I have to get work certified and also notify LABC. I have read so many articles that state it is illegal for registered sparks to certify work done by others but I just read on the official Part P document on the gov website that I CAN use a registered third party to certify work. I’m confused about what is correct and just wanted to know what your views are.

Thanks

NICEIC doesn't allow members to certify others work, NAPIT does have a scheme that allows it, but only if you were involved with the installation from the beginning. Some local authorities will accept an EICR done by a qualified electrician on a CP scheme in lieu of an EIC, but not sure what guidleines they follow. I done that once for a customer where the original builder didn't pay the electricians who in turn didn't provide the EIC. Your best bet is to get someone on the NAPIT 3rd party scheme to supervise your work and sign it off

 

[timhoward]

Options are:
a) Arrange for LABC to inspect it and certify it. This can be very hard work to actually make happen in practise I'm afraid, and in some area's I've known them simply say they can't offer the service even though they are supposed to.
b) There is a valid scheme called Third Party Certification which Napit offer, and members of it can follow an elaborate process to certify another sparks work. I opted out of this with my last renewal as it's far too much paperwork and hassle. You can however search for Napit members who offer "TPC" using the search facility on the Napit website.
c) Strike up a good understanding/rapport with a sparks who unofficially adopts the job. This shouldn't technically happen, but in the real world in some circumstances it does happen. e.g. sometimes sparks retire before a project is completed and others have to step in.

(Just a thought - if you improve your profile to be a little more helpful that "Home" as the location you might even find there are forum members local to you)

@Alan-N just told you the same thing but having typed all that I thought I'd post it anyway!

 

[Sadsyndrome]

thanks Alan-N and timhoward, much appreciated.
That explains why some people say they are not allowed to. You have given me a way forward now, sounds like NAPIT is way to go

 

[Alan-N]

thanks Alan-N and timhoward, much appreciated.
That explains why some people say they are not allowed to. You have given me a way forward now, sounds like NAPIT is way to go

Yep if you're doing it by the book, it needs to be a NAPIT member who also pays an additional amount per year for the privilege of doing 3rd party certification, as @timhoward stated, it is a protracted process where the paperwork needs to go to NAPIT technical to be approved before it can be submitted, I don't know the numbers, but I suspect it's only a small percentage of NAPIT members who are 3rd party certified, and 0% of NICEIC

 

[MJPD29]

You can, and I'm sure many do, but I never have and never would. But then I don't live in England so the part p crap wouldn't apply anyway

 

[loz2754]

Bearing in mind that the regs have been updated time and again over the years since you qualified, wouldn't it be a better idea to go with option 4. Namely, pay a sparky to do the whole job, including certification and building control notification. Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Sadsyndrome]

Bearing in mind that the regs have been updated time and again over the years since you qualified, wouldn't it be a better idea to go with option 4. Namely, pay a sparky to do the whole job, including certification and building control notification. Just my thoughts on the matter.

yes absolutely in an ideal world that is definitely the ONLY option. I wouldn't mind a brand new Range Rover, 6 bed mansion and a house in Caribbean either.

being retired and not flush with cash I've got to try and keep costs down though. If the costs aren't that different I will pay for someone to do it all. I will take the money required out of my range rover savings pot

I agree regs have changed a lot but I'm only changing a CU At this point I'm guessing your option 4 is the one I'll have to go with, but I won't give in just yet.

 

[LukeD]

Hello. I have a quick question for registered sparks on here.

Can/ will / do you certify notifiable work done by others?

I guess I’d have to pay LABC some fee (I’m waiting for a response from them) or is that part of the certification process you do? I appreciate I’d also need to get hold of a torque screwdriver and mft

Background
I trained and qualified as an Industrial electrician and did a 4 year apprenticeship albeit back in the 1980s, long since left the trade.

I would like to change CU (existing one has single RCD protecting all 6 MCBs). At the same time I will upgrade tails to 25mm because smart meter installer told me I should, despite tails being adequate for past 37 years. I realise I have to get work certified and also notify LABC. I have read so many articles that state it is illegal for registered sparks to certify work done by others but I just read on the official Part P document on the gov website that I CAN use a registered third party to certify work. I’m confused about what is correct and just wanted to know what your views are.

Thanks

The way the whole industry is "policed" The main question is "who would know "? Lots of work are done with no notification etc .Only issue is when property is sold and someone mentions something . This is still rare and most lawyers just "tick a box" when presented with any "evidence" / A friend of mine changed all his D/G windows. he did an amazing job . But Not FENSA registered which is another private company scheme . He printed out in 5 mins a "cert" .Job done !

 

[Midwest]

I was in a similar boat. I contacted three different Napit Third Party Certifiers, only one was interested, but that never materialised into anything. Guess it’s more hassle than it’s worth. My LBC was happy with an EICR, but it was all part of a Building Notice, and my electrical work was covered under that, and received my Completion Certificate, when I finished the whole building work.

i would suggest you employ a competent electrician, however much it guile’s you. Or you could simply do the work yourself and not tell anyone. How good are you at testing and do you have suitable test equipment?

 

[Sadsyndrome]

I was in a similar boat. I contacted three different Napit Third Party Certifiers, only one was interested, but that never materialised into anything. Guess it’s more hassle than it’s worth. My LBC was happy with an EICR, but it was all part of a Building Notice, and my electrical work was covered under that, and received my Completion Certificate, when I finished the whole building work.

i would suggest you employ a competent electrician, however much it guile’s you. Or you could simply do the work yourself and not tell anyone. How good are you at testing and do you have suitable test equipment?

I would do it myself and hire an mft (£60/week apparently) or maybe borrow one from someone i know who is not a registered spark. I was an industrial spark years ago but still used ohm meters, voltmeters/ voltage testers, clamp meters and IR tester to trouble shoot. Didnt have MFTs then and the "megger" was a wind up, with meter an big lump of analogue "avo" tbh can't remember loop impedence testing, however I'm sure I would manage. I do think IR testing is an interesting one in an existing installation with USB sockets, LED lighting/ dimmer switches and electronic modules everywhere

However, my ONLY concern is invalidating house insurance, not upsetting LABC. A mate of mine had a house fire a few years back and without insurance he would have been screwed, that keeps me focused on following all the rules and regulations.

 

[DPG]

I would do it myself and hire an mft (£60/week apparently) or maybe borrow one from someone i know who is not a registered spark. I was an industrial spark years ago but still used ohm meters, voltmeters/ voltage testers, clamp meters and IR tester to trouble shoot. Didnt have MFTs then and the "megger" was a wind up, with meter an big lump of analogue "avo" tbh can't remember loop impedence testing, however I'm sure I would manage. I do think IR testing is an interesting one in an existing installation with USB sockets, LED lighting/ dimmer switches and electronic modules everywhere

However, my ONLY concern is invalidating house insurance, not upsetting LABC. A mate of mine had a house fire a few years back and without insurance he would have been screwed, that keeps me focused on following all the rules and regulations.

Remember things such as SPDs and type A RCDs.

 

[Midwest]

I would do it myself and hire an mft (£60/week apparently) or maybe borrow one from someone i know who is not a registered spark. I was an industrial spark years ago but still used ohm meters, voltmeters/ voltage testers, clamp meters and IR tester to trouble shoot. Didnt have MFTs then and the "megger" was a wind up, with meter an big lump of analogue "avo" tbh can't remember loop impedence testing, however I'm sure I would manage. I do think IR testing is an interesting one in an existing installation with USB sockets, LED lighting/ dimmer switches and electronic modules everywhere

However, my ONLY concern is invalidating house insurance, not upsetting LABC. A mate of mine had a house fire a few years back and without insurance he would have been screwed, that keeps me focused on following all the rules and regulations.

I had done 5 years back on the 'tools' and been registered with a Scheme for that time. Which was then even more annoying, when a year later, when I was no longer registered with a Scheme, my LBC didn't know how to accept my qualifications, and then suggested the EICR. Which is nuts really, as I could provide a fully presented EIC.

Not sure about house insurance, but it can cause potential problems with vendors, if you sell your house.

 

[Sadsyndrome]

Remember things such as SPDs and type A RCDs.

Yes thanks. I’ve selected my equipment, I’m going for Hager cu with round knockouts and type a rcbo per circuit. Maybe overkill but having lived with single RCD protecting all circuits for 35+ years I realise the meaning of “nuisance” in the phrase “nuisance tripping” At this stage I have decided against SPD and AFDD but the size of enclosure doesn’t preclude later upgrade (haha after this fiasco I can’t see that happening any time soon though!)

 

[Sadsyndrome]

The world has gone mad. I wonder how many fires and/ or deaths this has prevented?

 

[Midwest]

Yes thanks. I’ve selected my equipment, I’m going for Hager cu with round knockouts and type a rcbo per circuit. Maybe overkill but having lived with single RCD protecting all circuits for 35+ years I realise the meaning of “nuisance” in the phrase “nuisance tripping” At this stage I have decided against SPD and AFDD but the size of enclosure doesn’t preclude later upgrade (haha after this fiasco I can’t see that happening any time soon though!)

SPD's are cheap as chips relatively, and I think you find a requirement, unless you can risk access away?

 

[Sadsyndrome]

SPD's are cheap as chips relatively, and I think you find a requirement, unless you can risk access away?

Oh, I didn’t realise there was a requirement for SPD. Could you let me know where that requirement is, so I can take a look? I would have thought AFDD were more likely to be mandatory than SPD but tbh I haven’t given either more than a cursory glance, I think at this rate I will just stick with my old setup

 

[Midwest]

Oh, I didn’t realise there was a requirement for SPD. Could you let me know where that requirement is, so I can take a look? I would have thought AFDD were more likely to be mandatory than SPD but tbh I haven’t given either more than a cursory glance, I think at this rate I will just stick with my old setup

I'm not current on that, others will help. But like all manufacturers Hager do pre-populated boards, some include SPD's. Its not really worth NOT getting SPD's.

I think AFDD's are a recommendation at the moment, but they are silly money relatively, and your CU would need to be twice the size.

 

[FatAlan]

Do the work in close supervision with a spark that can approve the spec before you do the work, do the pre-change and post change tests and then notify? Might save a few pennies. Look out for borrowed neutrals.