Can somebody help me understand these light wires please?

[Paul Beckwith]

In my property i need to install a light that i have just bought from a shop.

Although i understand electrics a bit I'm not an electrician and I'm not quite 100% confident.

Can somebody be kind enough to advise me the procedure they would take when faced with the wires situation in the picture below:



As you can see, there's 2 main white cables. There's a red wire inside each white cable and they are joined together by black tape. The bit i don't understand is why there are 2 black wires (1 from each white cable) but they are separated by a plastic electrical connector (ie not in contact with one another). Why have they been separated/isolated? Do they need to be separated when i wire up the light I've bought too? If so how will the light work?

I know people are going to say pay for an electrician but i honestly can't afford one. So any advice about what you would do if you was going to wire up the light would be appreciated. I have bought a voltage tester.

Thanks.

 

[rmc86uk]

Ok so the two reds will be a permanent feed which means even when the light is switched off at the switch these two reds will always be live. They need to stay together in the connector. One of the black wires will be a switch wire which is from the switch which should go into the brown on your new light and the other black wire should be a neutral which goes to the blue. You can check which is the switch wire by testing with your voltage tester between one of the black wires and earth and and if you operate the switch you should get 230v.

 

[Leesparkykent]

This is a standard way of it being done. What you have is neutral, switched live and permanent live.

 

[telectrix]

if by voltage tester you mean a voltstick, the it will light on the switched L when you operate the switch. if your new light is metal, then make sure to connect the earth wire/s to the terminal on the fitting. once having identified the switched L, you should put a bit of red tape on it for ID.

 

[amlu]

find out what wire does what, make a tidy connection with some wagos/solder/self amalgamating tape/heatshrink (depending how much space available), connect properly to the light.
fancy lights in the shop usually do not have provision for more than one cable entering them and there is a grey area on how to wire it,
usually it ends up in a terminal block covered with tape.
if you get stuck please provide some info whereabouts in London are you, maybe someone can come and sort it out on their way to/from work, its a simple job should not cost much!

 

[Paul Beckwith]

It's all sounding a tiny bit complicated (to me at least).

I bought a Rolson All Purpose Voltage Tester, but the instructions seem geared to the professional too. A bit hard to understand what to do.


The light i want to put up is a Cisco 5 Light Ceiling Fitting - Silver (see image below):

Do you think it's beyond me?

 

[Paul Beckwith]

find out what wire does what, make a tidy connection with some wagos/solder/self amalgamating tape/heatshrink (depending how much space available), connect properly to the light.
fancy lights in the shop usually do not have provision for more than one cable entering them and there is a grey area on how to wire it,
usually it ends up in a terminal block covered with tape.
if you get stuck please provide some info whereabouts in London are you, maybe someone can come and sort it out on their way to/from work, its a simple job should not cost much!

South East London (Bromley)

 

[amlu]

It's all sounding a tiny bit complicated (to me at least).

I bought a Rolson All Purpose Voltage Tester, but the instructions seem geared to the professional too. A bit hard to understand what to do.
View attachment 30474

The light i want to put up is a Cisco 5 Light Ceiling Fitting - Silver (see image below):
View attachment 30475
Do you think it's beyond me?

Basically those 2 wires in the connector block, on one of your earlier pictures, they got to end up in some fiddly terminals on your lamp.
Turn off the power before you start doing it.
Lamp is metal, it may be double insulated, it may be not and require earth connection...
I dont go south of the river much but may have couple of hours at end of the week. send a PM if needed...

 

[Paul Beckwith]

Basically those 2 wires in the connector block, on one of your earlier pictures, they got to end up in some fiddly terminals on your lamp.
Turn off the power before you start doing it.
Lamp is metal, it may be double insulated, it may be not and require earth connection...
I dont go south of the river much but may have couple of hours at end of the week. send a PM if needed...

Sorry for sounding like a noob but i am, lol. What procedure would it entail to find out which black wire goes where? The block inside the light has terminals for the usual brown, blue and earth (same as a standard wall plug). It's obvious where the earth goes. I can do that much off the top of my head. It sounds like that wire should be connected 1st.

Then, by the sounds of what your saying, the 2 red wires are not going to be doing anything inside the light, ie they may as well not be there. However they need to be together and so should use and share a spare junction in the connector block that doesn't actually affect the light at all (why are these wires there in the 1st place then?) Is that right so far? Then comes the hard bit then. How do i test which black wire goes to the blue connector in the block and which one goes to the brown one. Is that also right so far? If so what would the correct procedure be using my Rolson All Purpose Voltage Tester that i bought. i,e do i have to turn on the light switch, keep my thumb on the metal contact at the top end of the tester and simply touch the wires with it and see which black wires lights the built in LED on the tester, or is it just not as simple as that? Bit embarrassing if I've got that all wrong, lol

I must say, I'm not a cheap skate trying to save on money that i could easily afford, I'm honestly not, I'm on benefits atm, and could really do with spending my money on other needed things atm. If i have to spend it on an electrician i will have to though.

 

[amlu]

your "voltage tester" works only on live cables, and you should do work with power off.
If you had a multimeter, even a cheap one then you can do continuity check on those cables to find what goes where.

cant advise much more,be warned that metal light may become live when not installed properly, and give someone a nasty shock one day.
if you on benefits may be worth asking council to send electrician round to sort it out.

 

[Paul Beckwith]

Ok, thanks for your advice. It sounds sound, ty

 

[Richard Burns]

Test the two terminals with the black wires for voltage with the volt pen as you describe, do not touch the connections directly with your hand whilst testing, only touch the volt pen end.
With the switch on, one of them will show as voltage present, this is switched live (the other is neutral and does not show voltage present) and later when you are doing the connections with the circuit isolated, should be sleeved with brown (or possibly red) sleeving as identification.
Fit the ceiling bracket in place first ensuring you do not screw through into any cables, but do fix to the joist.

Connect the earth to the center terminal of the block in the first picture and connect a new short cable into that terminal block.
Enclose the wires in the picture in a junction box and place this in the ceiling void with the new cable coming out of the ceiling and then take the new cable into the the light fitting terminal block.
Fit light to ceiling bracket.

 

[Paul Beckwith]

Test the two terminals with the black wires for voltage with the volt pen as you describe, do not touch the connections directly with your hand whilst testing, only touch the volt pen end.
With the switch on, one of them will show as voltage present, this is switched live (the other is neutral and does not show voltage present) and later when you are doing the connections with the circuit isolated, should be sleeved with brown (or possibly red) sleeving as identification.
Fit the ceiling bracket in place first ensuring you do not screw through into any cables, but do fix to the joist.

Connect the earth to the center terminal of the block in the first picture and connect a new short cable into that terminal block.
Enclose the wires in the picture in a junction box and place this in the ceiling void with the new cable coming out of the ceiling and then take the new cable into the the light fitting terminal block.
Fit light to ceiling bracket.
View attachment 30476

Richard Burns Thank you so much for your advice and detailed reply. Its much appeciated. Just to confirm, the red wires stay joined together but NOT connected to anything? Whilst testing i keep my thumb on the metal plate on the top of the voltage tester (obviously keeping my fingers well away from the screwdriver type bottom end).

Long shot, but if there's anything/advice i can give you back then please ask. I'm very good with computers, photo restoration, photo editing/enhancing/saving, video making, most things computers really (by the look of your graphic you know your way around a photo editor too i think)

 

[Richard Burns]

Yes the two red wires remain connected to each other, they are providing the supply for the next lights in the circuit.
Ideally if you have a steady hand, just hold the tester with your finger on the top plate and place the tip onto the terminals metal parts without holding the terminal block, but if you may slip then hold the terminal block using the (undamaged) cables wired to it to avoid your fingers touching any metal on the terminal block whilst testing.
(really not an ideal tool for electrical use).
Once testing is complete, isolate the circuit before moving on to anything else.

I think I am OK for computer operations, but thank you any way...
Unless you can tell me how to reduce file size on converting videos from one format to another without reducing image quality, they tend to go from original .avi 2kB to converted .mpg 20MB for example.

 

[Paul Beckwith]

Yes the two red wires remain connected to each other, they are providing the supply for the next lights in the circuit.
Ideally if you have a steady hand, just hold the tester with your finger on the top plate and place the tip onto the terminals metal parts without holding the terminal block, but if you may slip then hold the terminal block using the (undamaged) cables wired to it to avoid your fingers touching any metal on the terminal block whilst testing.
(really not an ideal tool for electrical use).
Once testing is complete, isolate the circuit before moving on to anything else.

I think I am OK for computer operations, but thank you any way...
Unless you can tell me how to reduce file size on converting videos from one format to another without reducing image quality, they tend to go from original .avi 2kB to converted .mpg 20MB for example.

Great, TY

I will PM you on here about the video size question, as otherewise this thread (i think its called) will go off topic

 

[Paul Beckwith]

Just a final update:

Light is up and working as expected. Thanks again

 

[GMES]

Thanks for letting us know it's sorted Paul and your alive to tell the tale.

 

[Paul Beckwith]

Thanks for letting us know it's sorted Paul and your alive to tell the tale.

Lol

 

[Paul Beckwith]

Hypothetically speaking, what would of happened if the 2 black wires had been wired into the light the wrong way around, ie the switched live black wire (that should of been brown) mistakenly wired to the blue connector in the light, and the other black wire to the brown connector in the light?

 

[Richard Burns]

From your point of view, nothing, the light is not polarity sensitive; from the point of view of the next person to work on the light this may lead to them getting a shock from incorrectly identified wiring or wiring a polarity sensitive fitting incorrectly based on your wiring.