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Discuss Can you afford to stop installing PV? in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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MrKnowItAll

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I hear a lot of negativity about the MCS scheme with a lot of installers saying that PV is dead, homeowners don't want it installed since the drop in FiTs and the industry is in decline.

Look at the following facts (stats coming from OFGEM)

MCS Registered Domestic PV Installations for period of 1st May to 12th June:

2011 - 10,611 installations
2012 - 15,057 installations

This shows an increase of 50% more installations even after the FiTs have dropped from 43.3p/kWh

MCS Registered PV installers for period of 1st May to 12th June (estimated at 80% of total installers):

2011 - 2,118 installers
2012 - 3,436 installers

The 2012 figure means that those 3,436 installers on average installed 4 installs per month! Depending on where you buy your kit, there can still be some money to be earned from domestic PV installations.
 
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Worcester

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Mentor
Arms
You need to look further and unsterand the type of install that is happening now. This time last year there was very little social housing going on. This year massive amounts, really skews the market. And the REAL number of 'active' installers.
 
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MrKnowItAll

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  • #3
Conversely to that, however, there WERE lots of Rent-a-Roof giants rampaging around the country rattling a large number of installations in a very short space of time (arguably one of the main reasons for the drop in FiTs). Now the multi-site installation tariff has been introduced, there doesn't seem to be as many installs of this type.

Is there anything to stop any MCS company for putting their faces out there by getting in touch with councils, housing associations etc? A genuine question, not flippancy.

What would regard as an "active" installer? I would regard an active installer as someone who has a business who is out there, looking to win work?
 
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SRE

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  • #4
Is there anything to stop any MCS company for putting their faces out there by getting in touch with councils, housing associations etc? A genuine question, not flippancy.
QUOTE]

Cashflow! Social housing providers are not known for paying quickly and I know few companies that have the funds to subsidise late payments of that sort of size.
 
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moggy1968

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  • #5
mrknowlittle
what you have overlooked is that building regs now require you to install renewables. Builders are putting minute systems on roofs to satisfy the regs but are pretty useless in terms of production.
The number of installations is therfore artificially skewed and missleading.

Also bear in monf fits dropped to 21 after march 2012 and there was a mini rush before this.

most of us are seeing nothing like 4 installs a month (3 since march in my case, all in one week before the latest cut!!)
 
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MrKnowItAll

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  • #6
No need to be rude.

It's a forum for discussion, not for people to poke insults.
 
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MrKnowItAll

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  • #7
My reasons for starting this thread were to find out the concerns of installers, as I only get to see one angle.
 

Worcester

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Mentor
Arms
No need to be rude. It's a forum for discussion, not for people to poke insults.
Sorry, with a user name that like you do ask to be challenged! However don't see that anyone has done that at all ??
 

Gavin A

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Arms
MCS Registered PV installers for period of 1st May to 12th June (estimated at 80% of total installers):

2011 - 2,118 installers
2012 - 3,436 installers

The 2012 figure means that those 3,436 installers on average installed 4 installs per month! Depending on where you buy your kit, there can still be some money to be earned from domestic PV installations.
hmm, there's also a bit of an issue that the 20% you estimate as not being active installers last year would almost entirely be new companies starting out in the market who've take a bit of time to really get going, whereas this year it'd mostly be made up of those companies who've gone bust, or just given up on this side of their work.

Lots of companies will also have expanded towards the back end of last summer - I know we did, with the idea of being in position to fulfill the demand we expected to see building up to the planned April FIT cut. I even emailed DECC in the summer to ask them to clarify if they were intending to bring forward the cut off date at all before we expanded, but got a non-committal reply back mentioning the fast track review for largescale systems.

I do agree that there is work out there to be had, it's just nowhere near enough to actually support all those installers, certainly not when the margins are being squeezed so much that we're probably making half as much per install this year as last. I am seeing some signs that things are picking up though, and we've got a fair few bigger projects on the go that should hopefully plug the gaps in our workload left by the reduction in private domestic interest for a bit, but no two ways about it, the last 9 months have been pretty harsh, with the period from April being by far the worst of it.

btw - you say you only get to see one angle. I'm intrigued what that angle is. Are you from DECC coming here to slum it with the us lowly installers for a bit?
 
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sedgy34

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  • #11
My reasons for starting this thread were to find out the concerns of installers, as I only get to see one angle.
My question to you is why do you want to know our concerns are you Greg barker?? And what is your background of the 1 angle your looking from?
 
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sparkynick

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  • #12
Why are you quoting install figures from last year and the first half of this year?
Anyone working in the PV sector knows that the changes to the FiT have completely changed the market.
You need to be looking at the figures for 08/12 onward.

I think sedgy's sniffed you out, you are Greg Barker aren't you?
 

Gavin A

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Arms
Conversely to that, however, there WERE lots of Rent-a-Roof giants rampaging around the country rattling a large number of installations in a very short space of time (arguably one of the main reasons for the drop in FiTs). Now the multi-site installation tariff has been introduced, there doesn't seem to be as many installs of this type.
point of order on this as well... it's not true really.

The major move to rent a roof only really happened after the announcement of the FIT's being slashed for the solar farms, as the companies and investors in solar farms who didn't move out of the industry entirely all piled in to the rent a roof sector at that point, at the same time as the established players in the market were also expending to full national operations.

I'd actually suspect there were more rent a roof installs in that period this year than last, though as DECC aren't releasing those sort of figures, it's not possible to know for sure.
 

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