Career change from IT to Solar PV and other renewables, also need installers

[Paul Roberts]

Hi all,

Been reading your posts here with interest. I am researching the market at the moment as looking to change career, I have a well paid IT job but not finding it fulfulling and getting fed up making other people rich.

I read the PwC report recently and they are forecasting huge growth in the PV market, even with the FiT's reducing year on year. I got a letter from Southern Electric saying they are raising their prices, and energy is only ever going to up in price.

So it seems to be a pretty good market to be in, and with RHI coming in then this opens other areas (e.g. air source heat pumps?).

But do I jack in my IT career and go for it? Can I make a decent living out of this? It sounds like hard work as I've read about how long it takes to do a survey and the calculations and to write everything up, and there seems to be quite a bit of competition so a lot of work for nothing if you repeatedly lose deals?

But I have found a company I can work with who are already MCS accredited and are offering regional franchises, so I can sub out the actual installation work and just project manage it. Are there any PV installers on here based in the south that would be interested in working with me?

Would appreciate any comments as the IT job pays me a salary every month, but is just dull. Getting into PV sounds quite exciting, new growth industry and all that, and it would be my own company, but I lose the safety of a regular salary every month. Is it worth it?

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Ramjam]

Paul,

I think you'd be daft to try to run a PV company that doesn't install. We're not short of people wanting to front the sales in return for a commission, I have energy consultants and the like calling regularly. The money is there to be made by adding real value by taking panels and inverters and making them into a systems that work and are elligible for FIT payments.

Start a PV company with salaried roofers and electricians, vans, stores, scaffold and tools and you've got a business but if you hope to just make sales presentations and book installs then you'll get nowhere. Any installer capable of managing customers and suppliers can manage the sales process and can make that money themselves. You'll only get chimps in vans if you plan to sub everything, they won't be loyal or reliable and your business will be like a house of cards.

I'm sure that what I've said is not what you want to hear but I would advise against what you are proposing. We will soon be offering fully BFA approved franchises which will enable franchisees to build a reliable and profitable business. The franchise will be properly packaged, sold and supported and I know for a fact that there are no other BFA approved franchises currently available in solar PV so whatever you've been offered has not been properly scrutinised and tested.

We will sell our franchises to electricians who want to make money so that the franchisee is fully trained in every aspect of the business so that they can truly run it from roofing, electrics, sales, admin and business development with support at all times to make sure that they make money not mistakes.

Find an electrician and together buy one of my franchises in October and you'll be making very good money within 12 weeks.

 

[Paul Roberts]

Hi Ramjam,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate everyone is busy and not always able to offer advice.

I actually agree with you on your first point, I am not interested in running a business that doesn't do installations. I have seen other franchises that are just sales only commision based type operations and the job is handed over to head office and that's the end of it. I actually want to be involved in the installation but initially will probably have to get sub-contractors involved, although I do like the idea of getting qualified for 17th edition & Part P etc. So initially I will be looking to project manage the installs, but want to ensure I am in touch with the customer right from the first phone call through to completion, this then builds a good reputation, on-going referrals and ultimately if I want to sell the franchise on and start again but on my own then I will already have the skills, knowledge, contacts etc. but without the restrictions and on-going costs of running a franchise.

I am looking at franchises as a way of getting into the business as I don't have the contacts, experience or even a way of sourcing panels. The franchise I have found is not yet BFA approved although they say they have used BFA advisors to set it up, and they fully intend to join. They provide all the training needed, marketing, technical and managerial support and all the blurb I have read sounds pretty good. They are MCS accredited so qualify for FITs, and being a franchisee means I would benefit from that also. They already have a few franchisees up and running so it seems to be a sound business.

My main stumbling block is lack of trade contacts, but I read on here about a guy who has got a great roofer for £150/day, so there are people out there, and the franchisor can provide an electrician to get me started until I find my own (or get myself certified - I come from an electronics engineering background so confident I can do it).

I'm not averse to hard work but I imagine it can get quite demoralising if you spend loads of time doing surveys and quotes but aren't winning the business. It sounds like a very price conscious market, so if you are being constantly undercut and have to reduce your prices to compete then where does it end? Will this industry be ruined by ever decreasing margins, because if you end up only making a few hundred quid on each job then I'd be better off staying in my dull and unfullfilling job!

Cheers,

Paul

 

[SRE]

Personally, I think you'll regret paying for a franchise - no disrespect Ramjam, I'm sure yours will be popular, but I think once you'd got your head round everything you'd be wondering why you paid for the franchise. There's only one reason people sell franchises, to make money, if they can money in this market - why can't you?

The only franchise that I'm aware of is Cleaner Air who are asking for 25 - 30k and as I understand it they supply the goods. They are the worst wholesaler by far I've dealt with and I wouldn't pay the 25p never mind 25k.

I suspect that by the time you find your feet in the pv market the profit per job is going to be down to hundreds for a lot of work and hassle. It takes a while to build a reputation and during the time it takes you to do that you'll have no wages, bills coming out of your ears and cashflow problems like you never imagined, most of us have been through that already.

Why not use your IT skills to develop either online marketing programmes that MCS installers can buy into - Maybe Ramjam could do with a partner for his franchise operation? Or develop a robust database that reduces the amount of paperwork that we have to complete - I've yet to see a really good one, most are mediocre at best. That way you get some of the perks of the industry without a lot of the pitfalls.

 

[flamefix]

Do the maths, write a business plan and see if you have the funds to setup and fund your first year, the cash flow for the business and your personal life. Ys it is exciting and rewarding but hard work, long hours and lots of stress. Perhaps you if you have the cash you could buy into a business or partner up as and option?

 

[Paul Roberts]

I suspect that by the time you find your feet in the pv market the profit per job is going to be down to hundreds for a lot of work and hassle.

Wow, that is scary, do you really think that's the way the industry is heading? I read another post about someone losing out on a deal to another firm because they cut costs by not using scaffolding - that sounds absolutely mad to me, if this is the way it's going then it doesn't sound very appealing. In fact that sounds downright dangerous. How do you compete when people are cutting margins like that all the time? If margins drop to that level it's not worth doing in my mind.

It takes a while to build a reputation and during the time it takes you to do that you'll have no wages, bills coming out of your ears and cashflow problems like you never imagined, most of us have been through that already.

So is it true what I understand about the VAT? The installer (i.e. you) buys the panels & inverter etc., and pays 20%, but when you sell to the customer they only pay 5%, so you have to claim the 15% back from the VAT man? Have I got that wrong?

As the VAT man is normally used to taking rather than giving, then I understand there are two issues:

1) Routine investigations because the VAT man thinks you are scamming him
2) Lengthy delays waiting for VAT rebates, which then impacts cashflow

If this is right then it sounds like a right nightmare.

Maybe I've got it wrong.

Or develop a robust database that reduces the amount of paperwork that we have to complete

I'm getting the impression that there is a lot of this, I haven't done all the research yet but it sounds like there's quite a lot to do regarding MCS, REAL, handover docs, electrical schematics, building regs, FIT applications etc.? Can someone summarise in a couple lines all the paperwork?

I have to say I was quite enthusiastic at first about the whole thing but the more I dig the more hassle and stress it all sounds. And I can't make the numbers add up on my P&L spreadsheet, the money left over to pay a salary is not great, there seem to be tons of overheads. So I am worried that if margins are going to reduce over the next year or two the numbers simply won't stack up and I'll end up working for nothing.

Maybe I should just do one of the PV courses like the C&G 2399, go contracting as an installer and let someone else worry about the business side of things! ;-)

Thanks for all your honest answers.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[robsparky1975]

I was under the impression that you needed to have 17th edition,2391 to get on a the 2399 course,i am looking into doing the course myself,where did you guys do it?,not for one instance thinking of a franchise,just making myself more flexible.Done some work on a 4.5MW install(20000 panels)that got me interested in doing the pv course.

 

[flamefix]

How do you compete when people are cutting margins like that all the time? If margins drop to that level it's not worth doing in my mind.

If you are just starting out then it's difficult every job becomes a job you have to get, if you are more established you can afford to lose some and get the one worth having thereby maintaining quality and margin.

Can someone summarise in a couple lines all the paperwork?

It's a form of ISO9001 but instead of a team of people with assigned roles, duties and responsibilities.. there's just you a one man band, imagine performing all the roles and duties of a medium sized ISO90001 approved firm, audit trails, paperwork documenting every step you do, having meetings with yourself, recording those meetings, plus run a business, do bookkeeping, order the stock, arrange the contractors, health and safety, go shopping, pick the kids up, take them to sports day, take the wife out, make dinner.....

I have to say I was quite enthusiastic at first about the whole thing but the more I dig the more hassle and stress it all sounds. And I can't make the numbers add up on my P&L spreadsheet, the money left over to pay a salary is not great, there seem to be tons of overheads. So I am worried that if margins are going to reduce over the next year or two the numbers simply won't stack up and I'll end up working for nothing.

not to mention unpaid holiday, sick pay- who goes sick? pension arrangements, etc..

Maybe I should just do one of the PV courses like the C&G 2399, go contracting as an installer and let someone else worry about the business side of things! ;-)

Thanks for all your honest answers.

Cheers,

Paul

Working in the wet, damp cold of winter autumn and spring not to mention summer when it's too hot or still wet. Yeah it's glamorous, but you have to want to work for yourself, want the unsocial hours, long days, and enjoy all that to have the reward of working for yourself. When you live this life you don't notice all the things that become routine, the roles you take on to get the job done and grow the business, but if you sat down and thought about it you would wonder how you did it. Try doing every ones job in the place you work at now for a day, the cleaner, the secretary, the manager, the assistant, the project manager, the director, the sales person the administrator, the apprentice, the IT guy, the accountant... every day. IT's a:juggle: but great :yes: and :mad2: but everyone thinks we are :greedy: when all we want is to be :smile5: and in the background that's the :nopitylaying now !

 

[Paul Roberts]

Hehe, I like the violin playing, very good! lol

On a serious note I just took a quick look here:

Consumer Code - Scheme - REAL Assurance Scheme

Out of the many pages this little nugget stood out...

"Members must keep a record of all performance calculations on which predictions have been made for 10 years after the energy generator has been installed. They must be able to justify the calculations and make them available to the scheme administrator's nominated appointee if asked."

So you are on the hook for 10 years after installation, even if you did your best to get the calcs right, you could still be asked to justify your numbers. I can't remember what I did last weekend let alone 10 years ago! ;-) Better make sure this is all in a fire proof safe.

I can live with the long hours and hard work, it's just all the bureacracy for the sake of it, and now it sounds like each job can effectively take 10 years before you get closure!!!

 

[Paul Roberts]

I was under the impression that you needed to have 17th edition,2391 to get on a the 2399 course

Aye, that was my understanding too, so I would have to do that first.

 

[robsparky1975]

Yes might be an idea paul,and with your electronics background you would have a good head start,maybe you could stay in your job and do the training before jumping ship.

 

[Eco Deal]

Most Directors of MCS companies do not hold one electrical qualification !!! most are office types who are good with paper work , thats how they got there MCS accrediation !!!! as MCS is 90% paper work based !!! if you give one of these guys a screwdriver and told them its a left handed screwdriver they would belive you !!! its a load of B*****ks rant over