Discuss Ceiling heating...1970's? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

sythai

sythai

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Just seeing if anyone has come across ceiling heating before...?

They have it installed in a flat (top floor) we're currently working on.

Very thin (2-3mm) type of matting laid all around between the ceiling joists. Has a 10mm copper strip down each side of mat, a type of fabric in between and is covered in a film. Stat in each room.

Looks quite dated, going by the rest of the install would say no earlier than 1970's.

Currently trying to suss out where its wired from. They have economy 7 so not sure if may also be wired in to here.

Cheers Sy
 
D

Deleted member 9648

Seen it in a estate of bungalows in a village near us. Definately 70's built. About as much use as a bad bellyache seemed to be the concensus amongst users,now long since converted to wet systems.If I recall it was fed on the onpeak side of E7 via a T/S and contactor,and available 24hrs.
 
G

Geordie Spark

Yes ... 70's or thereabouts. Absolutely bloody useless. While the wife upstairs feet were blistering, the gadgee doonstairs heid had a coating of frost on it.

It was installed in a lot of council flats and after a few years abandoned. It wan't removed though - just disconnected and alternative heating installed.

I have no idea about how or why it was wired from I only know it was a disaster.
 
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sythai

sythai

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Cheers Guys for a speedy reply.....

If I recall it was fed on the onpeak side of E7,and available 24hrs.

Thats a new one on me, always thought E7 was ran from around midnight to 07:00?
 
G

Geordie Spark

Just seeing if anyone has come across ceiling heating before...?

They have it installed in a flat (top floor) we're currently working on.

Very thin (2-3mm) type of matting laid all around between the ceiling joists. Has a 10mm copper strip down each side of mat, a type of fabric in between and is covered in a film. Stat in each room.

Looks quite dated, going by the rest of the install would say no earlier than 1970's.

Currently trying to suss out where its wired from. They have economy 7 so not sure if may also be wired in to here.

Cheers Sy

If they have any sense it will be disconnected and not wired to anything, but why not try firing the heating up and see if the ceiling gets warm?

What better test to see if it's working can there be?

You may have to stand on a chair to reach so watch out for the H&S Bogey Man! ;)
 
D

Deleted member 9648

Cheers Guys for a speedy reply.....



Thats a new one on me, always thought E7 was ran from around midnight to 07:00?

Yes....but anything that ran 24hrs also got the benefit of cheap night time rate....or it could be switched through the metering clock to only run night time.
 
Marvo

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Was this under ceiling heating an infra red radiant panel?
 
G

Geordie Spark

Cheers Guys for a speedy reply.....



Thats a new one on me, always thought E7 was ran from around midnight to 07:00?


Was there not two parts to E7 - a timed side for Off Peak and a 24 hour side so you could switch the heating on when YOU wanted it on?

Don't know really - had nothing to do with them - just seen them collecting dust & cobwebs in the backs of junk cupboards.
 
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Geordie Spark

Was this under ceiling heating an infra red radiant panel?

It was like big ceiling tiles all interlocked like ceiling tiles that covered the ceiling like ceiling tile. From my dodgy memory dims. were about 3 feet x 2 feet but I stand to be erected on this

They were coloured white I think and I think I remember seeing one with a sticker on it telling the householder not to paint it.

They got hot - well, warm - but did not glow red and were better for heating the wife upstairs' floor than the room you were paying to have heated!!
 
G

guest119

Under the plasterboard Marvo, just a heat mat that heated the ceiling, and kept the snow off the roof!


Boydy
 
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sythai

sythai

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Was there not two parts to E7 - a timed side for Off Peak and a 24 hour side so you could switch the heating on when YOU wanted it on?

Bit of further investigation required tomorrow, just briefly found an E7 CU on the way out tonight.

Currently pricing up some electric eco panel heating (Fahro) for the customer, much better. Fit a lot of these to replace old storage heating tat.
 
Marvo

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I'd be interested to see some photos if you can take some Sy.
It was like big ceiling tiles all interlocked like ceiling tiles that covered the ceiling like ceiling tile. From my dodgy memory dims. were about 3 feet x 2 feet but I stand to be erected on this

They were coloured white I think and I think I remember seeing one with a sticker on it telling the householder not to paint it.

They got hot - well, warm - but did not glow red and were better for heating the wife upstairs' floor than the room you were paying to have heated!!

Under the plasterboard Marvo, just a heat mat that heated the ceiling, and kept the snow off the roof!


Boydy

I can't for the life of me imagine how they could possibly work if they're not radiant. How was the heat supposed to reach the people below? Did they maybe have some kinda forced circulation fan? Sounds like the result you get when you let the marketing department get involved in R&D.
 
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Geordie Spark

Bit of further investigation required tomorrow, just briefly found an E7 CU on the way out tonight.

Currently pricing up some electric eco panel heating (Fahro) for the customer, much better. Fit a lot of these to replace old storage heating tat.

I've never had anything to do with electric heating of any kind other than electric fires and immersion heaters as I always though water filled radiators are better. As you say the storage heaters are / were tat.

I suppose though that there must have been some advances made and would not discount out of hand what you propose. In fact, I would be interested in learning a bit about them out of curiosity.
 
G

Geordie Spark

I'd be interested to see some photos if you can take some Sy.




I can't for the life of me imagine how they could possibly work if they're not radiant. How was the heat supposed to reach the people below? Did they maybe have some kinda forced circulation fan? Sounds like the result you get when you let the marketing department get involved in R&D.

You hit the nail right on the head Marvo my little Zulu friend!

The fact was they did NOT work - EVER - yet were fitted in a Hell of a lot of council rental properties such as tower blocks (Ronan Point has a lot to answer for!).

The cynic in me says "somebody" made themselves a lot of money.
 
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guest119

Saw it a lot in the 70s as said by others.
New schools, nurseries etc, council buildings.
I dont know the name of the type of roof but best described as a flat roof with a slope??? Where the front of the building is lower than the rear and has gym halls and community areas.
Anyway, a long time ago but as I remember the specialist would wire it down to the stats and we would supply it from there. These were new builds, timber framed.
I think it was fibreglass between the joists, reflective tinfoil across the josts, heat mats between the joists and then plasterboard over.
It did work as I recall but probably all been changed now as I know many of the buildings are still there.

Boydy
 
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Deleted member 9648

The ones in the estate near me looked a bit like those heat mats used by reptile keepers. There was the plasterboard ceiling,heat mat,polythene vapour barrier over and then a layer of rockwool about fag paper thickness. On the underside of the ceilings in every room were stickers warning of the dangers of piercing the ceiling!
 
A

Adg

I remember a relative of mine had it in their place, if you stood on a step ladder the top airspace of the room was lovely and warm i.e 1ft below ceiling height, but the rest of the room was chilly to say the least and it was of a time when fire places were being phased out of new builds, so this was the only heating in the property. Rubbish!!




I can't for the life of me imagine how they could possibly work if they're not radiant. How was the heat supposed to reach the people below? Did they maybe have some kinda forced circulation fan? Sounds like the result you get when you let the marketing department get involved in R&D.[/QUOTE]
 
7029 dave

7029 dave

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Yes,I remember that system, heated elements, each room with own stat, radial circuits 15amp each circuit.
 
R

R G

I came across this system on an estate in West London area , The name of the system was called ESWA , basically as you said elements in like a foil with insulation about 5mm thick , a lot of these system have packed up , and expensive to run , as these places are all electric the alternative is storage heating , using the existing off peak supply and install a new consumer unit and new circuits and heaters, ditch the old off peak circuits completely , done quite a few flats in that estate, about 70s /early 80s built..
 
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ImpededLoop

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...as these places are all electric the alternative is storage heating , using the existing off peak supply and install a new consumer unit and new circuits and heaters,

We did exactly the same. We converted a sheltered housing place about 20 years ago that had ceiling heating. We used the existing radial circuits to feed storage heaters from a new off peak board.
 
R

R G

We did exactly the same. We converted a sheltered housing place about 20 years ago that had ceiling heating. We used the existing radial circuits to feed storage heaters from a new off peak board.

Thats all you can do really , the flats on the estate I am talking about were very small , so I suppose the old heating system was justified as storage heaters took up valuable wall space , I went round on behalf of the managing agents doing that , another system thats come about that may be of use is the electric boilers using wet system with rads , I have only come across one of these but I don't know what the running costs are ,..
 
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Guest111

Thats all you can do really , the flats on the estate I am talking about were very small , so I suppose the old heating system was justified as storage heaters took up valuable wall space , I went round on behalf of the managing agents doing that , another system thats come about that may be of use is the electric boilers using wet system with rads , I have only come across one of these but I don't know what the running costs are ,..
I remember having a conversation with a rep about those "electric wet systems" a few years ago,they were also doing a lot of publicity in the likes of PE magazine,the guy was saying they were very economical however I wasn't convinced,by and large anything that involves the words electric and heating in the same sentence is usually costly.
 
R

R G

I remember having a conversation with a rep about those "electric wet systems" a few years ago,they were also doing a lot of publicity in the likes of PE magazine,the guy was saying they were very economical however I wasn't convinced,by and large anything that involves the words electric and heating in the same sentence is usually costly.

I would like to know what it does cost to run for myself , I need to replace an oil fired boiler and needs to be relocated as well , and that means moving the oil tank , so an electric boiler would be an idea , but with a 4 bed house I think the running costs would be massive , I have looked up Heatrae Sadia they do one , but running costs I think would be massive , If anyone has any info let me know please,
 
telectrix

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bet the councillor that decided ( via a brown envelope, nudge , nudge ) to use it got a golden handshake and a huge pension, then went into banking.
 

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