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Hi

can someone tell me what are the regs for fitting recessed down lighters into a ceiling , ie distance from joists etc , never fit them before ! .

spike
 
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Charlie_

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Arms
The distances from joists isn’t really a regs thing but a manufacturers’ guidance..
Used to be really important with the old halogens as there was a risk of fire.
50mm is usually the standard distance.
 

littlespark

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Just follow manufacturers instructions. Re ip rated if bathroom,
Try not to get them right next to a joist.
Don’t cover with insulation
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Hi
Tks for reply , not actually got them yet , as far as I know there is no insulation in the ceiling and they will be fitted in the lounge .
Just was not sure if there was a reg covering the installation of these .

spike
 

Midwest

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Fitting LED down lights closer to a surface than manufacturers recommendation, can cause them to overheat and fail. Same as covering with insulation, unless specified by manufacturer as suitable.
 

ferg

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I can't think of any reason to install halogens either.

I could write a list of reasons not to though. :)
 
T

Toneyz

If it is the colour of halogen they like there are LED ones that give the same colour as halogen. As you say halogen I assume that you want to fit the ones with a lamp, not the all integeral ones.
 

James

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One thing about led lights that most people don’t realise is they flash.

Now a halogen type light will get slightly brighter and dimmer as the 50Hz cycle passes through the element heating it and allowing it to cool slightly.
Because of the reaction time of the element, it never turns off, just dims a bit.

Light emitting diodes can turn on and off at high frequency, going completely off between cycles this is why they are used to transmit high frequency digital data down fibre optic cables.
With all but some very specific types of led lamp, they are turning on and off at whatever frequency the driver circuit is providing.

This is regularly demonstrated on top gear, when they slow motion a car you will often see that the headlights and tail lights are flashing.

There are some study’s that show this type of lighting is bad for the brain and can affect people with a epilepsy.
 
Tks guy's for your replies , it seems that they want halogen lights not led !
If your customer prefers the light output of halogens over LED, they should give these a try:


I fitted them in our kitchen and utility room-they give a really nice quality of light that is very close to incandescent lighting. They have slightly lower lumens per watt than a lot of other LED GU10s so the downside (besides price!) is that you may need a few more fittings to get the right light levels.
 
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  • #15
I still install halogens but it’s only for specific lighting designs, certainly not for day to day installs..
They want a row of about 6 above were a new sofa is going to be in the lounge !
 
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  • #16
I think the only problem i have with halogen spots is the heat given off them , but not sure if 12v spots give the same heat off ! .
 
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  • #20
i can.... LEDs run cooler, cheaper, don't melt choc blocks, don't burn joists, don't cause fires, rarely explode showering down red-hot bits of glass. and onandonand on.
Hi tks for your reply , just asked that to show the client
 
S

Silly Sausage

I think the only problem i have with halogen spots is the heat given off them , but not sure if 12v spots give the same heat off ! .
A 50W lamp gives off the same heat be it 12V or 230V
If you must fit halogens, fit 230V jobbies
 

Wilko

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6 above their lounge - sounds like a heat lamp :)
 

telectrix

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A 50W lamp gives off the same heat be it 12V or 230V
If you must fit halogens, fit 230V jobbies
had this argument with a lighting "designer". customer wanted smart lighting, whole house was approx. 120 downlighters. the "designer" specced 12V LEDs each with drivers. my input was "youse going to have problems". customer went with the designer's spec. and now is calling them back in to failures on a regular basis. he called me and asked if i could sort it out permanently. my reply was to rip out the £2000 he'd spent and start again from scratch. was not well received.
 

littlespark

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Cons.
6 halogens at 35W each (or 50W if you really want to burn your head), that’s 210W.
If they’re sitting under that, they will feel the heat.

Compare that to 6W LED and the energy saved alone will pay for the installation.

Halogens need replaced more frequently.

The heat from halogens can deteriorate the plasterboard ceiling

Pro
As above, halogens don’t flicker as LED do, but that’s almost imperceptable.

Halogens can be dimmed simply with traditional dimmers and newer smart switch dimmers.
LED lamps are still a little hit and miss with suitability.
 
T

Toneyz

I take it you mean the LED version of the old 12v dichroic? might of well had the GU10 type.
Sorry that was a reply to Tel's post 26 not got used to the new forum yet
 
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  • #29
OK , just spoke to the client , he said he wanted 240v halogen spots , citing that led's light is not as good as halogen , we have agreed to fit the GU10 fire rated holders and I will show him both types fitted so he can see the difference !
 
T

Toneyz

OK , just spoke to the client , he said he wanted 240v halogen spots , citing that led's light is not as good as halogen , we have agreed to fit the GU10 fire rated holders and I will show him both types fitted so he can see the difference !
Aren't these halogens being phased out now?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #31
But my original question was about regs for fitting , not whether or not my client wanted halogen or led spots !
 

littlespark

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The LED light is only as good as the quality of lamp you but.

Cheap Chinese tat - cr*p light
Decent priced from known manufacturer - just as good as halogen

And you have the choice of colour temperature
 

littlespark

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But my original question was about regs for fitting , not whether or not my client wanted halogen or led spots !
Quite right. And I think we answered that early on.
Everything else has been personal opinions to a posted statement.
If it’s your clients wishes, then trot on.
You did ask us for reasons. post #17
 
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  • #35
Only because #10 said they had reasons
 
T

Toneyz

But my original question was about regs for fitting , not whether or not my client wanted halogen or led spots !
These halogens get to approx 200 degrees C. so keep a distance away from anything combustible i.e. wooden joists and other fabric of the building.
Make also sure that there is no other debris ie rubbish that could cause ignition of a fire.
Consideration of building regulations would be a transmission of sound, fire and air through the hole.
 
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  • #40
Consideration of building regulations would be a transmission of sound, fire and ait through the hole.
Yes will be getting sealed , fire safe holders .
 

telectrix

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Consideration of building regulations would be a transmission of sound, fire and air through the hole.

not to mention if fitted in a bog room, the transmission of fart gases.
 
T

Toneyz

Consideration of building regulations would be a transmission of sound, fire and air through the hole.

not to mention if fitted in a bog room, the transmission of fart gases.
Explosive gases then Tel.
 

ferg

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My list not to.

Expensive to run.

Run very hot.

Damage plasterboard, heat.

Heat can damage springs so they start to drop down.

Heat can damage joists.

Rare cases shatter.

Forever changing lamps. Good luck with that if the heat has deformed the fitting and or made the plasterboard so delicate it falls apart.

Can be a fire hazard.

Heat can melt connections and wiring.

In case I forgot they generate a lot of heat.

Wasteful horrible things that are more bother than they are worth for 99.9% of installations.
 
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  • #45
Wow , you def don't like them do you , there must be millions in homes around the uk ! .
I have them in the Kitchen ( not fitted by me ) for over 4 years not replaced a bulb as yet , they are not recessed in the ceiling though ! .
 

littlespark

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Part of the electrical qualification now, and advice in general is to be as eco friendly and “green” as possible.
Therefore, it’s quite common for us to advise on LED lamps purely on their power saving merits.
 
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