Instyle LED Lighting Specialists UK
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Discuss Changes in the 17th edition.... in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

Thought I'd start a sticky post on the 17th edition changes, basically just list of all the regs which have changed, be as detailed as you like really, hopefully it'll become a decent reference post for you look upon in the furture months before it comes into action. Type away...........
 
Aico 3000 Range
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
T

TonyM58

i'm gonna start writing my 17th edition and 17th edition update courses next week, so my head will be well and truly in the book

I can always post the main points up here, no probs
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
just got me book today, going to try an do the same, harder for me, dunno what the old ones were, hehe
 
L

leeroy201986

reg no. 411.3.3

In a.c. systems,additional protection by means of an rcd in accordance with regulation 415.1 shall be provided for:

(i) socket outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A that are for use by ordinary persons and are intended for general use,and

(ii) mobile equipment with a rated current rating not exceeding 32A for use outdoors.

An exception to (i) is permitted for:

(a) socket outlets for use under supervision of a skilled or instructed persons, e.g. in some commercial or industrial locations, or

(b) a specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment.


not sure if i am interpriting the (i) correctly? any thoughts?
 
T

TonyM58

leeroy,

it is what it is

all sockets 20A or less to be an RCD, unless you had a single socket with 'freezer only' written on it

The ordrinary/skilled persons bit is awkward - lets be hones you are NOT gonna get away with that in a house.

Anyway, its irrelevant because all cables less than 5 cm from the surface have to be RCD protected if insalled in the safe zones and not in earthed metallic conduit.
 
L

leeroy201986

feel stupid now, you now what its like tho, you sieve through the big brown/red book for so long looking up things that eventually your mind blanks out over simple things.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
nah its alright, at least you, me, others can get a better understanding of certain areas. I think the more you discuss stuff the better, rather than having the little voice in your head repeat the regulation all the time trying to get what it means.
 
E

evo666

What do you have to do with your 16th edition testers??
I need to purchase one and the little man in the shop said that he had no 16th edition ones in stock and he was waiting for the 17thedition ones to come in.
Does that mean that if you already have a 16th edition tester you ahve to get a new one??
If so what changes on them??
 
A

Andy M

Just going back to the remark that Tony (My new Hero - are you Tony Cable ? the face of the NIC ?) made re the freezer socket having to be on an RCD. It wouldn't if it was wired surface. Does this mean the return of the surface rewire? well on the lighting and fixed equipment anyway. Are we not dumbing down by insisting everthing is on an RCD to accommodate the DIYer and worse than that the Kitchen Fitter?
Finally an unrelated RANT
i returned to a house i rewired in 2004 the other day to swap a spur to a socket outlet (which had been the boiler supply (own circuit fixed equipment & on non rcd side of split load) when i wired it. I enquired to the home owner why the Gas Board had not wanted to re-route the circuit, which would have been dead easy and where the new boiler in rthe new position was now fed from. My worst fears were confounded. They had spurred of off the Immersion Heater!! but hey they part P'd it so that's ok. Sludgy Rats
Rant Over
 
T

TonyM58

What do you have to do with your 16th edition testers??
I need to purchase one and the little man in the shop said that he had no 16th edition ones in stock and he was waiting for the 17thedition ones to come in.
Does that mean that if you already have a 16th edition tester you ahve to get a new one??
If so what changes on them??
Evo,

Only changes to testing that i am aware of for the 17th are the IR values, test voltage will be the same, but values all move 'up one' (@500V min now 1Mohm instead of 0.5Mohm)

Heard rumours that ramp testing of rcd's was gonna come in (so you record actual trip current instead of/as well as trip time, but it doesnt look like.

Seen lots of '17th editon testers' out there. Perhaps they come with a little pull out 5cm ruler so you can check the depth of cables below the surface!!!!!

And no, Andy, I am NOT Tony Cable. But by a happy coincidence my last name is 'Overcurrent Protective Device', comes from my fathers side i think.:)

Are you Andy Impedence by any chance, perhaps Andy Adiabatic Formula?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
so your saying that between a 16th edition tester and a new 17th one, there is nothing different about them?
 
E

EasyFox

Probably only the price !
 
T

TonyM58

luke,

I am saying that iam not aware of any changes that could justify calling something a 17th edition tester

Could you imagine them introducing something that made thousands of 500-700 quid meters redundant???!!!!

Oh, and i've got some 17th edition compliant pens for sale, and ,erm...... some old socks

10 quid each

They are more expensive than the 16th edition ones, because they are, well,......17th edition!!;)
 
C

Cirrus

Sorry to hijack the thread but Tony - I have sent you a pm about your 17th training;)
 
E

EasyFox

Tony your a man that might know.
I've been in the wholesalers this morning & while chatting to the usual crowd we got on to the 17th ed test meters. I said (same as you) as far as I was aware only the IR values had changed so all 16th ed meters will comply unless they are pass/fail type set for 16th ed results.
But one of the lads said he was told by IET (he rang them for advise on 2382 courses) that the current continuity test current( Test current I = 200 mA)
is to be changed in the first set of ammendments mid to late Feb (I've found nothing on the IET site about it).
He also said to hangfire with the 2382 courses due to said ammendments.
Just wondered if you or anybody else had heard anything or is it the usual rumour mill on the go.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
T

TonyM58

well, gotta be honest thats news to me!!!

Cirrus, i have PM'd you back, no problems
 
G

gazzel72

Test equipment need not be changed, there is no difference between 16th & 17th edition testers. This is the nos. you need to look at IEC 61010 & EN 61557 if your meters comply to these your ok. Hope this helps.
 
S

slrichardson

Passed yesterday!!!!!!!!! Rcbo heaven here i come!!!!!!
Found exam ok no real scares, if you have done some papers no worries!
Thanks to Brian!!
 
P

PAUL M

Has Anyone Spotted Any Mistakes In The Big Red Bible Yet,page 363 Radial Final Circuit Arrangements Reg 433.1 "a Radial Final Circuit Starts And Finishes At The Distribution Board And Is Protected By A 30a Or 32a Protective Device,"hmmmmmm.sounds More Like A Ring To Me.ha.anybody Would Think The New Regs Where Rushed In.
 
C

Cirrus

Haven't bought my copy yet. Can't quite bring myself to spend £65 on a bleedin book!
 
P

PAUL M

i know it grieves me but have to have latest edition for when the nic visit,has anyone heard when 17th o.s.g. is coming out?
 
W

wayne

i hoted that writing mistake ,the cute littlle drawing looks right
 
B

BEN5637

is anyone working to 17th now? fitted a cu and bonding today in a house with TT earth. with 100ma rcd main switch and 30ma on the split side. understandably gonna be out dated this year and customer didnt want to pay for rcbos as quoted for it last year
 
S

Shakey

is anyone working to 17th now? fitted a cu and bonding today in a house with TT earth. with 100ma rcd main switch and 30ma on the split side. understandably gonna be out dated this year and customer didnt want to pay for rcbos as quoted for it last year
why would they need RCBO's, just change the CU spec and juggle with the circuit connections to each way in the CU

I cant see a twin 30mA RCD board being much different to a 100mA S type and a 30mA
 
B

BEN5637

yeah fair one but was having problems with two 30ma on a split load as they were intermittently tripping the other one when testing giving odd readings, so reverted back to 16th TT method. Just out of interested was looking back at old 2391 certificate and it said "you have been sucessful in th following "0" modules..." is that correct as doesnt sound very encouraging?
 
B

BEN5637

cheers shakey nice one, to be honest am new to the forum, but been reading posts for hours its surprising how much you get other views on things which is great as i work as a stand alone electrician top stuff cant get enough of it!
 
B

bigal

I agree Ben. M, myself and I get stuck in the same way mode. You think you know/understand something and then someone points out something bleedingly obvious. Thanks for the human conact guys.
Bigal
 
M

MJS

I wonder if any of you could help? Have there been any changes in the 17th edition with regards to increasing the size of the neutrals due to harmonic currents?
Any help or advice very much appriciated.
 
T

texas123

I found a really neat 17th Edition site at 17th Edition Wiring Regulations - Schneider Electric. It's on Schneider's website, but doesn't try to flog you anything. There's a great little interactive quiz on 17th Edition (I only scored 70% so it got me thinking) and some really neat Noddy guides to each of the changed regs.
 

Reply to Changes in the 17th edition.... in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Top Bottom