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Hello all. I´m installing a new multi split Air Conditioning (Inverter Type) in my dwelling and I have to purchase all of the electrical parts needed for the installer. I am currently running a 63a Type-A RCCB and I was told by the electrician that I could use the Type-A with a 16a Type-C MCB but according to my research, I need to upgrade to a Type-B RCCB. Does anyone have any experience in this?
 

Pete999

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Hello all. I´m installing a new multi split Air Conditioning (Inverter Type) in my dwelling and I have to purchase all of the electrical parts needed for the installer. I am currently running a 63a Type-A RCCB and I was told by the electrician that I could use the Type-A with a 16a Type-C MCB but according to my research, I need to upgrade to a Type-B RCCB. Does anyone have any experience in this?
Do you not trust your Electrician Johnny? Rather that get the stuff yourself, you ought to let him supply and fit what is required, German Engineering is very good.
 
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He is a friend and commercial electrician. He is quallified up to 1k Volts I believe he said but he told me that he has not done any residentual electrical work and that leaves me to doing the reasearch. If neccesary, I will call another electrician out but I was hoping to find a simple solution.
 
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The manual that came with the unit is not very discriptive and just states: ELCB that can handle harmonics > MCB 16-A > Outside Unit
 

TJ Anderson

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Hello all. I´m installing a new multi split Air Conditioning (Inverter Type) in my dwelling and I have to purchase all of the electrical parts needed for the installer. I am currently running a 63a Type-A RCCB and I was told by the electrician that I could use the Type-A with a 16a Type-C MCB but according to my research, I need to upgrade to a Type-B RCCB. Does anyone have any experience in this?
You need to know the load of the unit and then size circuit protective devices and cable. Ask the Electrician what supply they require.
 

TJ Anderson

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Just read your last. You need the know the demand of the unit before you can do anything.
 

TJ Anderson

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The manual that came with the unit is not very discriptive and just states: ELCB that can handle harmonics > MCB 16-A > Outside Unit
Assume it is single phase.

Not sure what the regs are in Germany. Over here that would get a 30ma 61008 RCD (>16A) in series with a 60898 C16 or instead a 61009 C16 RCBO would be the order of the day.
2.5 or 4mm circuit conductors dependant on PFC at origin, install method, length of circuit, VD etc.
As I said don't know German regs. We would not normally protect AC on RCD over here unless absolutely forced to by install method.
 

TJ Anderson

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Lol. I'm too late again. Yes 12.2A single phase.

How far are you running it from supply and how will cable be run?
 
D

Deleted member 105166

Daikin kit is amongst the best, so good choice of brand.
You'll need an IP67 rated rotary isolator beside the outdoor unit, to isolate the whole system.
The indoor unit takes its 230V from the outdoor unit and you'll have an FCU beside the indoor unit for local isolation.
As already stated, installation method and rating factors must be considered, also depending on how the cable to the outdoor isolator will be routed may influence the cable selection (i.e. avoiding exposed T/E outdoors)
Type C protective devices are usual for this equipment, due to the inrush current on startup.
 

plugsandsparks

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Agree with C16 either MCB or RCBO depending on whats up front. This system looks like a 2 room multi-split with both rooms indoor units powered from a 3C+ earth direct to outdoor unit. I personally do not use indoor local isolation as there is little point, you still need to isolate the compressor before working on it. So i cable direct using YY cable. Daikin are the Daddy, R32 gas is the new stuff bit more flammable than R410A so have it serviced regularly.. .....
 
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Has your consumer unit not got an RCD in it already?
We have a 63a Type -A RCCB installed now but I don't think that it'll handle inverter load
 

plugsandsparks

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FWIW, never had to install a Type B yet for these small units. The larger ones dont yet command RCD protection.... suspect that may change.......
The leakage currents are very very small and the more modern the unit the less impact they are having on supply harmonics. I would expect the latest Daikin baby unit to be more than happy on a type A.
UNLESS Daikin STATE IT MUST BE A TYPE B
 

plugsandsparks

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Just a thought though. A/C units do leak to earth, even if its a small amount. I do remember one flat i went to that had 3 large units all fed off one up front RCCB, they were experiencing random tripping. Once i added all the leakage from the AV equipment they had as well as the a/c, there was no wonder it was tripping as the combined leakage of the whole flat was well above 15mA, cannot remember how far over it was but i simply put each a.c unit on a separte RCBO.....
 
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Agree with C16 either MCB or RCBO depending on whats up front. This system looks like a 2 room multi-split with both rooms indoor units powered from a 3C+ earth direct to outdoor unit. I personally do not use indoor local isolation as there is little point, you still need to isolate the compressor before working on it. So i cable direct using YY cable. Daikin are the Daddy, R32 gas is the new stuff bit more flammable than R410A so have it serviced regularly.. .....
It's a 2 room multi 2.5kw for bedroom and 3.5kw for living room. I ran a 4x1.5 between both indoor units to outdoor. I ran all cable through cable canal and piping canals
Just a thought though. A/C units do leak to earth, even if its a small amount. I do remember one flat i went to that had 3 large units all fed off one up front RCCB, they were experiencing random tripping. Once i added all the leakage from the AV equipment they had as well as the a/c, there was no wonder it was tripping as the combined leakage of the whole flat was well above 15mA, cannot remember how far over it was but i simply put each a.c unit on a separte RCBO.....
Thanks for the reply. As I said before, I am no electrician. My father is, and I worked with him many of summers in his company but he´s in America and the US has a completely different system. I also wasn´t allowed to do any work in the breaker box and for good reason. With that said, I have a "decent" understanding of running wires, connections, GFCI´s, etc..I however don´t completely understand everything in the box. This is exactly what Daikin gives in the manual. It´s quite vague. Nowhere does it specificly state that it must be a Type-B but according to my research, it would need a Type-B because of the inverter. We also do have several computers if that does play a role.
daikin3.png
 
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My electrician friend here said that he would recommend leaving the Type-A and just installing a C16 for the unit. Any thoughts? Or would I be better with a RCBO "x"16? Would the RCBO be run off of/in sequence with the RCCB or would that cause problems?
 
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plugsandsparks

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Valid options are: C16 MCB leave RCCB in place as electrician suggests, possible outcome too much leakage overall, however, this is a small chance. I have two outdoor units off a RCCB in Spain but there's just a TV, Sat receiver and laptop.
2nd option C16 RCBO, this will need the board to be re-jigged and may not be physically possible if the board is old and not designed for RCBO's. / not enough room for a common isolator if there is not one already.
I would go with your electricians suggestion as if it does not work, he will be the one to figure out why.
 
D

Deleted member 105166

My electrician friend here said that he would recommend leaving the Type-A and just installing a C16 for the unit. Any thoughts? Or would I be better with a RCBO "x"16? Would the RCBO be run off of/in sequence with the RCCB or would that cause problems?
Where an upstream device is rated similar to the RCBO, there will be no selectivity therefore won't prevent nuisance tripping.
 
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Valid options are: C16 MCB leave RCCB in place as electrician suggests, possible outcome too much leakage overall, however, this is a small chance. I have two outdoor units off a RCCB in Spain but there's just a TV, Sat receiver and laptop.
2nd option C16 RCBO, this will need the board to be re-jigged and may not be physically possible if the board is old and not designed for RCBO's. / not enough room for a common isolator if there is not one already.
I would go with your electricians suggestion as if it does not work, he will be the one to figure out why.
Thanks. I believe we will start there. In any case, we would still need to install the c16. We can always get a Type-B RCCB later and install if needed.
 

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