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Discuss CIS Payments in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

jason121

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Arms
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Any of you here that are LTD have you been told to fill out CIS returns for scaffolding firms that are also LTD
 
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Worcester

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Mentor
Arms
Been doing it for ages, once you are CIS registered, it doesn't matter whether they are limited or not.
 

jason121

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Going to swap my tool box for a pen
 

BruceB

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Arms
I did ask HMRC in writing whether I needed to be CIS for solar PV, but their interpretation of the legislation was an unequivocal YES. Penalties for getting CIS wrong can be cruel, so get up to date quick.
 
O

Octopus

And HMRC wonder why there is so much cash work in construction!! CIS is a real pain for a small business.
 
S

Somecamel

I've recently had to deal with CIS, first commercial job, they're deducting 20% etc. (ouch)

I did read though that they should only technically be deducting the 20% off the labour, Might be worth popping this over to the SL
 
F

finchy

Agree a right pain for small businesses, make sure you submit your monthly returns ! They like fining, we had a to-do over a nil return some 2 years back it turned into a £600 fine (basically a 6 month nil return wasn't registered correctly).

Basic accounts packages do all the CIS for you even online submission, yet another admin cost....hence why companies offering stupidly low installation costs can not survive !
 
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sedgy34

get a good bookkeeper or accountant pay them to do it, just get on with what you do.
 
M

moggy1968

CIS is a real pain, I've had several fines for late returns!
yes, scaffolders are subject to CIS.
you deduct 20% for labour, and, rather bizzarely travel but not masterials so encourage your subbies to load up their materials and reduce the labour element.
If your subbies aren't registered at 20% you deduct 35%
I had one say he didn't have to be registered because he was a limited company, this is WRONG, everyone working as a subbie must be registered as a contractor but you only need to make a monthly return if you are a main contractor using subbies.
 

Cbigfoot

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Arms
CIS is nuisance, BUT it is up to the contractor to supply you with an invoice that seperates labour and materials. If they do not then you deduct from the total invoice less the VAT.

I use an account package for my CIs, it did cost a bit, but i do all my own accounts as i go along to keep accounting costs down and know where i am financially. Once it was set up i can now do my CIS return each month in less than 15 minutes. It does it all for me including filing the return. my first two were done manually and they took so long that the cost of the package has been paid for in time and worry saved within 6 months. It also doe smy VAT returns as well and they take a similar amount of time.

Also a good tip. If your CIS tax and PAYE liability to HMRC is less than £1500 per month you only have to pay it quarterly. Can help with the cash flow.....
 
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moggy1968

what package is that?
 

Cbigfoot

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Arms
I use sage 50 with cis attachment. If you use sage instant accounts or any other product they will upgrade for the difference and some months they do discount upgrade promotions

It has plenty of features i never use but do all my invoicing on it, and try to input all my incoming invoices on it weekly. If you keep it up to date it is ok but leave it too long then its a pain.

Cis and vat returns about 15 mins once its set up.

And i simply send my accountant an email with the years accounts from the program and she then does my year end and saves a fortune.

There are others out there but this is what my accountant reccomended.

Also very good technical support help desk. As usual the top level of technical support you have to pay for, but they give you 3 months free when you buy i think
Also they do it on inteest free payments!
 
J

JulianC

Aah, CIS. Unbeknownst to us, dear old HMRC erroneously opened up two accounts for us and on both accounts used the wrong start date (6 months earlier than actual). Then one morning, I receive 12 separate letters from them, each containing a separate £100 fine for late filing (6 months x 2 accounts). Luckily my accountant deals with these things so gets the fines rescinded. I then receive another 12 letters telling me each fine has been cancelled (along with paying in slips reading £0!). A further letter tells me that they are closing the erroneous account. That's 25 needless letters at god knows what cost per letter. Is it any wonder the government has run out of money?
 
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moggy1968

it warms the cockles of my heart to know my taxes are being spent wisely!
 
J

jerriais

Just thought I'd check the HMRC website on this

Solar Panels
The installation of solar panels to provide solar heating will be a construction operation within CIS, except where the contract is directly with a private householder.

So if we're doing solar PV that's not for solar heating, right? (Assuming no Immersun!) And also for all non-commercial jobs we shouldn't be doing CIS either. Does anyone else interpret it this way?
 
J

jerriais

Just seen another thread by BruceB about this. Now I get it, the exemption is when the sub contractor has a contract direct with the householder so that wouldn't work for us. And in his post there's also a letter from HMRC stating that PV is a new power source, even though it's not solar heating. Guess I'd better crack on and do my CIS return then!
 
S

Simpsod1

I've recently had to deal with CIS, first commercial job, they're deducting 20% etc. (ouch)

I did read though that they should only technically be deducting the 20% off the labour, Might be worth popping this over to the SL

You're correct the 20% deduction should exclude materials
 
S

Simpsod1

They can only dot eh deduction off materials if you send an invoice with materials listed separately.
Of Course!!
 
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