Code advice.

[jamie-spark]

Hi folks. Would like advice/ discussion

What code should be given for the following


Now I am sure it's the same up and down the country data and power cables lashed together above ceilings ect.

There are various sections of dado, which PVC singles share the same compartment of the data. This quite rightly has been given a c2.
( there is no voltage rating on the data cables and am struggling to get info )

What I am concerned with is where twin and earth occupies the same compartment and shares the same cable routes above ceilings ect without physical separation.
With regards to reg 528

What I am getting at is is the sheath of the twin and earth an equivalent mechanical protection as in a barrier( if u get my meaning). As behind desks ect data and flexible cables are always entwined

Now obviously in an ideal world it would all be installed universe ceilings on basket tray ect and physicals expectation maintained throughout and metal/ steel conduit used for power. But nowadays every thing is twin and earth lashed up above no clips ect ect

Rant over

Thanks in advance

 

[SirKit Breaker]

It is all C3. OK its a mess and it isn't compliant. you obviously realise that these cables should be in separate compartments, and they are not, but they don't pose any danger. The worst thing that could happen is someone gets a fuzzy picture on their screen, or they may get false alarm activations etc, but no one is going to get hurt either now or in the future from it.

C2 is only for non compliances that could pose a danger if is left unattended, a good example would be a crack in a socket faceplate, it isn't dangerous now, but if it gets worse it will be, and if it then exposes live parts it would become C1, and what you are faced with will never become a C1. But before anyone beats me up, please remember i am only basing my opinions on what i can see from 2 photos, i don't have the benefit of seeing anything else that the OP can see that may change my mind.

Cheers.............Howard

 

[trev]

I'm with Howard on this, don't see any way it can be any other than a 3

 

[telectrix]

i concur with above.

 

[GMES]

And I double concur with Mr Tel

 

[jamie-spark]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply. You are 4 respected members, and I value your input.
I was having this discussion with another electrician. With looking at the regs ,on site guide and gn5 he was of the opinion it was a c2. As if I remember correctly in gn5 it says bands must both have the same voltage insulation rating to stop dangerous voltages appearing in band 1 circuits. I was on the fence as it would need 2 simultaneously insulation break downs for that to happen.

I agree with what Sirkit breaker said some codes are more clear cut than others. It is always good to bat things of like minded people like yourselfs

Thanks

 

[trev]

If you think about it logically Jamie coding becomes fairly easy really, ok there's always going to be grey areas but-
1 Bloody dangerous right now! Do something about it or someone will get hurt
2 This is going to be dangerous if there's a fault, you should do something about this pretty quickly
3 Well it's not really dangerous but......

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply. You are 4 respected members, and I value your input.
I was having this discussion with another electrician. With looking at the regs ,on site guide and gn5 he was of the opinion it was a c2. As if I remember correctly in gn5 it says bands must both have the same voltage insulation rating to stop dangerous voltages appearing in band 1 circuits. I was on the fence as it would need 2 simultaneously insulation break downs for that to happen.

I agree with what Sirkit breaker said some codes are more clear cut than others. It is always good to bat things of like minded people like yourselfs

Thanks

As with most things periodic, there is seldom a total agreement, and there will always be debate. Ultimately the person on the job has to make an informed assessment of what is in front of you and what might happen. So it is your call, we can offer our opinions, but for reasons in my original post i can only call it as i see it, but it isn't me filling the paperwork in. As long as you can make a good justification for any code you see fit to use, then you can only do your best.

Cheers.............Howard

 

[jamie-spark]

If you think about it logically Jamie coding becomes fairly easy really, ok there's always going to be grey areas but-
1 Bloody dangerous right now! Do something about it or someone will get hurt
2 This is going to be dangerous if there's a fault, you should do something about this pretty quickly
3 Well it's not really dangerous but......

Trev I live my life in the grey

 

[trev]

Beware, grey leads to beige.

 

[jamie-spark]

As with most things periodic, there is seldom a total agreement, and there will always be debate. Ultimately the person on the job has to make an informed assessment of what is in front of you and what might happen. So it is your call, we can offer our opinions, but for reasons in my original post i can only call it as i see it, but it isn't me filling the paperwork in. As long as you can make a good justification for any code you see fit to use, then you can only do your best.

Cheers.............Howard

Agreed. I know an electrician who works with royal sun alliance. His sole job is testing. I asked him about how they code things and was told five of us senior testers sat down hammered out/ agreed codes, and that's how we generally do it.

Why the hell people don't take time to do jobs properly/ use good workman ship I will never know. I would have got a size 10 up my butt.

 

[trev]

I would have got a size 10 up my butt.

I often did as an apprentice but it taught me to do the job to the satisfaction of a perfectionist.

 

[shanky887614]

if you think thats bad ill see if I can get some pics on monday

 

[Risteard]

it would need 2 simultaneously insulation break downs for that to happen.

Does it? In the case of singles then a single fault will expose the ELV cables to a voltage that their insulation is not rated for, so how would that take two faults? After all, the whole point is that we cannot confirm that they are sufficiently insulated against 230V. So in the case of the singles I can see a case for a C2, but ultimately - as said - it is a matter of opinion.

 

[jamie-spark]

Does it? In the case of singles then a single fault will expose the ELV cables to a voltage that their insulation is not rated for, so how would that take two faults? After all, the whole point is that we cannot confirm that they are sufficiently insulated against 230V. So in the case of the singles I can see a case for a C2, but ultimately - as said - it is a matter of opinion.

Good point
There are sections where it has been done in dado in singles and points where it is done in flat sheathed twin

 

[jamie-spark]

Does it? In the case of singles then a single fault will expose the ELV cables to a voltage that their insulation is not rated for, so how would that take two faults? After all, the whole point is that we cannot confirm that they are sufficiently insulated against 230V. So in the case of the singles I can see a case for a C2, but ultimately - as said - it is a matter of opinion.

What I was primarily getting at was in the case of the flat sheathed cables sharing the same containment

 

[jamie-spark]

if you think thats bad ill see if I can get some pics on monday

It's no bad mate I have seen worse too