Domestic Compliant or not?

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Rob Smith 643

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At a recent 17th Edition update course, uproar broke out in the canteen (well nearly) over the use of a fused connection unit to supply a lighting circuit in a bathroom from a ring main. While talking about special locations, it had been suggested by one guy that if there was no spare way on the RCD side of the consumer unit (old '16th Edition' board) then he would consider spurring from the upstairs ring with an unswitched FCU to supply the lighting solely for the bathroom and take the bathroom out of the upstairs lighting circuit and leave a notice to this effect at the consumer unit to fulfil the need for plans/diagrams of alterations. This was offered up (not by the trainer/host I might add) as an alternative to spending X amount on RCBO or if RCBO was not available for an older style CU. Some nodded and thought it was ok but others argued, including the trainer that it would cause problems with seperation of circuits and hence not be 7671 compliant. Its a tickler...

Any thoughts from more experienced members...? I can almost hear the outcry now!
 
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Octopus

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  • #2
Not thought of doing it that way (getting a bathroom on a RCD) - can't really see a problem is labelled correctly.

Re seperation of circuits, if the "FCU" supplied circuit is the only one in the bathroom whats the problem?

Tin hat on.
 
Unconventional but so what, as long as there is a note at the consumer unit and a label on the fused connection unit then division of circuits isn't really a concern.
 

hasel5

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Arms
Would of thought the light being fused off ring was a way forward re division of circuits


Tin hat on lol
 
why not? certainly wouldn't consider it normally but if you were in the situation of change board or spur off ring, I know what I would do!
 
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Plonker 3

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  • #6
Nothing wrong with doing that at all. Not what everyone would do but if the customer doesn't want to pay for a RCD switch fuse spur.
 

Strima

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Arms
Esteemed
Not ideal but if needs must then so be it. It's great having all the speculation and arguments you want in the classroom but the real world is very different.
 
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Rob Smith 643

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  • #8
Strima, thankyou. That is so true and incredibly 'worldly' but that is what the forum is for, isn't it? For experienced members to enlighten the not so experienced and to exchange experiences, thoughts and problems uncovered in the real world or even in a classroom for that matter :)
 
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Dave 85

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  • #9
I do 30-40 bathrooms a year and the various methods I use to RCD the circuits are as follows:

C/U change
Move lights to RCD side of 16th board
Repalce/convert MCB to RCBO
RCD fused spur on lighting circuit (either whole circuit or just bathroom part)
RCD fused spur on ring feeding bathroom lights

I have never spurred the lights from the ring when a 16th board is present as I normally just move the whole circuit (I carry various types of buzzbar so this is never a problem) but I cant see any problem with this method and may consider it in future if there is no easier option.

TBH I couldn't care less what some 17th edition trainer thinks.....If I reckons something is a safe install then thats the way Im gonna do it. BS7671 is non statutory and, as the constant debates on this forum show, not black and white.
 
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Guest55

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  • #10
Clearly your course instructor is not an "out the box" thinker.
Spur to feed lights ? perfectly acceptable , seen it a hundred times , done it myself plenty times.
;-)
 
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Dave 85

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  • #11
Clearly your course instructor is not an "out the box" thinker.
Spur to feed lights ? perfectly acceptable , seen it a hundred times , done it myself plenty times.
;-)
What is it they say about 'those who cant do'........
 
What is it they say about 'those who cant do'........
Preach?
 
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Adam W

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  • #13
It's not ideal and I don't think anyone would try to say that it is, but I was under the impression CUs should be divided up so you get lights and sockets in the same room on different RCDs, MCBs etc so one could be isolated or operate and you would still have light in the room. Unless the bathroom is exceptionally large you wouldn't have sockets in there anyway, ie you'd only have a lighting circuit (on one breaker) so in a bathroom the issue of segregation of circuits is purely academic since (immersion heater aside, which would probably be in a cupboard) there is only one circuit.
 
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Guest55

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  • #14
What is it they say about 'those who cant do'........
Thats true in many ways.
Though i must say that my electrical theory teacher at college was an ex electricity board engineer with 30 yrs on the tools.
There was nothing he didnt know , awesome guy.
And i've thought about becoming a electrical tutor myself for quite some time - i hope the comment wont apply to yours truely lol.
 

Strima

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Arms
Esteemed
I like to spur loft lights from the RFC using an SFCU, that way you can work on the upstairs lights in the future without having to don the headtorch, no different to spurring off for any other room.

With the varying amount of balding designs and installations around there is never a text book answer.
 
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Dave 85

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  • #16
Thats true in many ways.
Though i must say that my electrical theory teacher at college was an ex electricity board engineer with 30 yrs on the tools.
There was nothing he didnt know , awesome guy.
And i've thought about becoming a electrical tutor myself for quite some time - i hope the comment wont apply to yours truely lol.
I had 6 tutors in 3 and a half years of night college
1st year
Practical tutor:terrible, used to kick us out an hour early, did not know about sleeving wires brown blue etc
Theory tutor: Average (total wa**er though)

2nd year
Practical tutor: Average (bit too old school for my liking)
Theory tutor: Terrible (class petition got him removed eventually)

3rd year:
Practical tutor: same guy as 2nd year (taught the same thing over and over for two years)
Theory tutor: Very good

17th edition: Very good (NIC inspector by day)

So all in all a fairly below par bunch but no worse than the teachers I had at school (significantly better in fact)
 
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Guest55

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  • #17
^^^ thats a really sad reflection on the tutors you've had and a pity you never experienced better.
Every one of the guys at my tech were at the top of their game , great times learning the trade.
 
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Rob Smith 643

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  • #18
No, the course tutor was a knowledgeable guy with a solid background in commercial/domestic electrics. Like a lot of good tutors, they will give you the book answer and practical examples also, but only if the audience is one that knows the difference. There was some right odd folk on the course, some reet awkward ones so in his defence I think he stuck to the book, which was our loss really. Hey ho.
 
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Guest55

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  • #19
No, the course tutor was a knowledgeable guy with a solid background in commercial/domestic electrics. Like a lot of good tutors, they will give you the book answer and practical examples also, but only if the audience is one that knows the difference. There was some right odd folk on the course, some reet awkward ones so in his defence I think he stuck to the book, which was our loss really. Hey ho.
A sound reply Rob
But theres nothing i know of in bs7671 that says you cant spur supply lights.
Admittedly i would try not to , but its always an option if needs must.
 
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Rob Smith 643

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
A sound reply Rob
But theres nothing i know of in bs7671 that says you cant spur supply lights.
Admittedly i would try not to , but its always an option if needs must.
The guy who raised the query did so in all sincerity and put it forward as an option if other options were cost restrictive or impractical.
 

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