Consumer Unit Change - No CPC on lights - Borrowed earth

[SB-LEC]

Been asked to change a consumer unit

On inspection found out that customer had done much of the work himself - approx 20 years ago

Currently has old Wylex NN Board

Ring Mains & Kitchen appear OK - T&E

Lights have no cpc, except for a couple with metal fittings.

The lights with metal fittings have an earth, but is borrowed from the ring main.

Q1, Am I OK to change CU with warning notices attached

Q2, What action is required about the borrowed CPC

Q3, AM I OK to run sepearte CPC to fittings without going via switches.

SB-LEC

 

[Octopus]

Have you read the best practice guides on this, if not, that should be your first move. They are on the ESC website and can be downloaded

 

[bigbaddave]

If the customer wont pay for a rewire or running a separate 4mm cpc (Just as cheap to rewire in twin and earth) then you can change the consumer unit, Providing of course main bonding is up to scratch.Making sure IR global is more then 2.0m or individually 1.0m

Id be changing all class 1 fittings and replacing them with class 2.. Borrowing cpc is bad crack as a fault on the sockets will be transfered onto the lights.

 

[SB-LEC]

Have you read the best practice guides on this, if not, that should be your first move. They are on the ESC website and can be downloaded

Murdoch

Have read the Best practice guide and everything points towards me suggeting a lighting re-wire

 

[Octopus]

No. Advice to the client is replace class 1 fittings with classs II and put a note on the EIC and the appropropriate label on the CU.

Check with your scheme, but this is the advice Elecsa hand out.

 

[bigbaddave]

Murdoch

Have read the Best practice guide and everything points towards me suggeting a lighting re-wire

]

If they agree then go for it.. If they don't then follow the advice in the event they wont pay for a rewire..

Most importantly explain the options and most importantly the costs.. They can make the decision based on that.. But you cant insist on a partial rewire in order to change the consumer unit..

 

[bigbaddave]

No. Advice to the client is replace class 1 fittings with classs II and put a note on the EIC and the appropropriate label on the CU.

Check with your scheme, but this is the advice Elecsa hand out.

I second that..

OP.. Whats your main bonding like? If ever in doubt phone your scheme (Presuming of course your registered)

May as well get your moneys worth for your annual fee

 

[richy3333]

Murdoch

Have read the Best practice guide and everything points towards me suggeting a lighting re-wire

You can change a CU where the lighting circuit has no CPC, The best practice guide advises this and what to do?

 

[SB-LEC]

Class ll change should be OK, but customer does not want to change metal clad fittings.

There is a spare 6mm CPC running from the CU to the attic space for some reason.

I'm assuming i can utilise this for the metal fitting and take appropriate action as per best parctice guide

SB-LEC

 

[Octopus]

Class ll change should be OK, but customer does not want to change metal clad fittings.

There is a spare 6mm CPC running from the CU to the attic space for some reason.

I'm assuming i can utilise this for the metal fitting and take appropriate action as per best parctice guide

SB-LEC

In which case you should make doubly sure that the customer is aware of the class I issues. That said their house is far safer with RCD protection on the other sockets so its much safer than before...... or you could walk away and leave it non RCD and class I!!

 

[SB-LEC]

The CU I have proposed will have RCD protection

 

[bigbaddave]

Class ll change should be OK, but customer does not want to change metal clad fittings.

There is a spare 6mm CPC running from the CU to the attic space for some reason.

I'm assuming i can utilise this for the metal fitting and take appropriate action as per best parctice guide

SB-LEC

the switches will also have to have cpc installed in order to fit class 1 fittings. If you using the 6mm to connect then make sure every thing is connected to the same and connected via the light fitting to the switch.

Having the cpc to the fittings from one source and the switches connected to sockets IMO is bad crack..

With the age of the cable what are your IR values.. This would be the deciding factor next for me..

 

[SB-LEC]

IR values are in excess of 50M

 

[bigbaddave]

IR values are in excess of 50M

On 1.0 1.5mm cable at least 45 year old thats in decent nic

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Why am I not seeing the words "Risk Assessment" here?

 

[SB-LEC]

Why am I not seeing the words "Risk Assessment" here?

Good point - I guess because the bulk of the work I have done has been new build, this scenario has not raised it' s head for me before.
So i'm sounding you guys out for advice, before making my decison on the best course of action.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

The ESC best practice guide on changing a CU when lighting circuits have no cpc says that a risk assessment should be carried out and, if the risk is low then the CU can be changed if the risk is High then it shouldn't