Consumer Unit in Bathroom

[LastManOnline]

Suitability for environmental influences? Situated in a steamy environment with no protection other than a cupboard door?

Just adding to discussion, not saying it's a fail as such. Not ideal though certainly.

Would, nt disagree with anything you say there. And as I said earlier the whole bathroom location rubs us all up the wrong way. Probably fair to say its a one off. But if there is no practical way of moving the CU out of the bathroom (budget issue) and equally if there are no regs been broken and the spark on site is happy that the locked cupboard is adequate, then I would personally be happy to let it as it is.

 

[Spoon]

Stick the CU in an IP67 rated enclosure. Job done.

 

[Lister1987]

My first port of call would be the manufacturer technical documentation for the cutout and electrical meter to see if there is anything in either that precludes it from being in a high humidity location in close proxity to jets of water.

Engineering judgement (not common sense) would say to move all switchgear outside of that bathroom, whether it is in zone, out of zone or neither.

 

[Intoelectrics]

Agreed. By the way I was really glad to see your statement "I would apply common sense".

If more people applied "common sense" then the world would be a better place!

Common sense is a broad term and one person to the next may have differing opinions on what common sense might apply.
My point though was, if there is no obvious breach in the regulations then the next port of call would be to consider things that may be outside this scope or indeed not covered in great detail. DPG mentioned "suitable for environmental influences", this is an example of such a consideration that is covered in the regs, and well pointed out.

Your first and most important consideration is safety, after this all other considerations are to determine the suitability of the design so that there is minimal deterioration, accessibility, maintenance, equipment ratings, specs, requirements, manufacturers guides, etc...

Maybe Spoon's suggestion of a suitable IP rated enclosure would be a solution?

 

[LastManOnline]

My first port of call would be the manufacturer technical documentation for the cutout and electrical meter to see if there is anything in either that precludes it from being in a high humidity location in close proxity to jets of water.

Engineering judgement (not common sense) would say to move all switchgear outside of that bathroom, whether it is in zone, out of zone or neither.

"Good sense and sound judgement in practical matters" is one definition of common sense.

It conveys the idea of using all available knowledge and experience to the table to enhance decision making. What is to be gained by turning our backs on newly acquired knowledge or experience?

 

[Let me think]

Think you only learn "common-sense" from the mistake(s) you make/witness - assuming you survive them

Just for what it's worth, I would go with not suitable for environment for having (I assume metal) CU in an bathroom in which temperature and humidity vary sharply over a short period of time, just look at level of condensation that appears on bathroom mirror, cold taps, etc, when shower or hot taps are turn on - even with a decent extractor fan.

Of course this can all be mitigated, if the everything is allowed to climatise as per manufactures specs (if manufacturer actually provided you with specs for this - good luck), but I'm not aware of any domestic environment that takes this into consideration. Could argue with CU in cupboard the it's 'protected' from sudden change in bathroom environment until you open the cupboard door - who would open the door to the CU just after a hot steamy shower? common-sense lesson in the making.....

Cut a long(ish) story short, not something I would be willing to do.

 

[LastManOnline]

Think you only learn "common-sense" from the mistake(s) you make/witness - assuming you survive them

Just for what it's worth, I would go with not suitable for environment for having (I assume metal) CU in an bathroom in which temperature and humidity vary sharply over a short period of time, just look at level of condensation that appears on bathroom mirror, cold taps, etc, when shower or hot taps are turn on - even with a decent extractor fan.

Of course this can all be mitigated, if the everything is allowed to climatise as per manufactures specs (if manufacturer actually provided you with specs for this - good luck), but I'm not aware of any domestic environment that takes this into consideration. Could argue with CU in cupboard the it's 'protected' from sudden change in bathroom environment until you open the cupboard door - who would open the door to the CU just after a hot steamy shower? common-sense lesson in the making.....

Cut a long(ish) story short, not something I would be willing to do.

When it comes to the effect of steam in the bathroom I often consider a shower pullswitch. Quite often they are mounted next to the cubicle and enveloped in steam everyday, several times a day. I personally am against the practice, though its allowed by the regs. Installing the shower isolator switch outside the bathroom alongside the light switch is the way I like to do it. I also find pullswitches ugly. That said I am required to change pull switches in bathrooms regularly. I have yet to come across one that has been compromised by water (shower spray) or steam. Never a sign of water ingress or tracking due to moisture. That helps to put a CU mounted in a bathroom, outsides the zones with a suitable IP rating, plus been enclosed in a locked cupboard, in a more agreeable context for me

 

[Intoelectrics]

I've often come across CU's installed in kitchens where they are quite close to cooker extraction hoods etc.. and found them exposed to steam from cooking and covered in slimy grease. The more I think about it the less concerned I'm becoming.
My thoughts would follow as such;

• Is it safe
• Does it breach any regs
• Would it be subject to environmental conditions which could increase deterioration or cause damage
• Is it accessible for maintenance

If the answers to those questions are not satisfactory is there a sensible and acceptable solution to solve this.
So for example - will the cupboard enclosure be suitable to achieve this? Personally, if its safe, protects the contents from environmental issues and is suitably accessible for maintenance. Then I can't think of a reason to dismiss it (provided it has absolutely been determined that it is within regs).

Tin Hat On!!

 

[LastManOnline]

I've often come across CU's installed in kitchens where they are quite close to cooker extraction hoods etc.. and found them exposed to steam from cooking and covered in slimy grease. The more I think about it the less concerned I'm becoming.
My thoughts would follow as such;

• Is it safe
• Does it breach any regs
• Would it be subject to environmental conditions which could increase deterioration or cause damage
• Is it accessible for maintenance

If the answers to those questions are not satisfactory is there a sensible and acceptable solution to solve this.
So for example - will the cupboard enclosure be suitable to achieve this? Personally, if its safe, protects the contents from environmental issues and is suitably accessible for maintenance. Then I can't think of a reason to dismiss it (provided it has absolutely been determined that it is within regs).

Tin Hat On!!

You summarise my thoughts much better than I did?

 

[Mike Johnson]

My one reservation is the locked cupboard, how do you get to the CU cut out in an emergency?

 

[LastManOnline]

Stick the CU in an IP67 rated enclosure. Job done.

Just saw your comment (2 days too late! ). That's the kind of statement that saves a lot of unnecessary discussion

 

[Intoelectrics]

My one reservation is the locked cupboard, how do you get to the CU cut out in an emergency?

Is there even a requirement to lock it?
The only issue I see is some idiot getting out of the bath or shower soaking wet and going into the cupboard fumbling around.
Would that be likely and should be considered?

 

[DPG]

Is there even a requirement to lock it?
The only issue I see is some idiot getting out of the bath or shower soaking wet and going into the cupboard fumbling around.
Would that be likely and should be considered?

What if someone leaves the door open?

 

[Intoelectrics]

What if someone leaves the door open?

Good point!
So this is the process I'm talking about regarding considerations.
Often as electricians we have to wipe people's arses for them, most sensible people would keep that cupboard shut and not entertain going in there. There is also the consideration for children. If the cupboard is accessible by them they may not understand the potential danger.

Good call DPG ?

 

[Mike Johnson]

What if somebody stands in a bowel of water and sticks their screwdriver into a live socket, is everybody a muppet. ? rhetorical question.

 

[DPG]

What if somebody stands in a bowel of water and sticks their screwdriver into a live socket, is everybody a muppet. ? rhetorical question.

You need a doctor if your bowels are full of water.

 

[Mike Johnson]

In general my bowels are full of Merlot, or the occasional Cote de Rhône, that's if I am not drinking the 20 year old Taylors Tawny Port that my wife gave me for Christmas. Hic.

 

[Intoelectrics]

What if somebody stands in a bowel of water and sticks their screwdriver into a live socket, is everybody a muppet. ? rhetorical question.

? Depends if its a VDE one ? I know a few people who would benefit from a good jolt ?

 

[Let me think]

Please someone close this thread, I can't take anymore ?