Converting an older board to 17th

[Jimmy Boy]

Just wanted to pick your brains lads, we have a few boards at work nearly all are 16th MK boards, with split load, usually RCD only on sockets outside/likely to be used outside, rest on mcb's, I am confident the new range of 60898 rcbo's and other gear will drop straight in, it seems just to be a case of running a new Blue N strap to re link the split Neutral bar, and buying a new copper bus bar, can any one see any snags with this at all ? Obviusly it will all be IR'd out first as part or the PIR's.

Thanks Lads

J

 

[Des 56]

Is it your suggestion, with the linking of the neutral bars, to enable the removal of the existing Rcd for a full Rcbo selection?

 

[Jimmy Boy]

That's it matey where the existing RCD fails the tests while I am buying a new one for x£ I might as well invest a few bob more and uprate to rcbo on each circuit

ATB J

 

[infinity]

Expensive but easily done, yes simple as linking the bars and new bus bar

 

[Jimmy Boy]

I thought so many thanks, and yes an expensive solution, but in the context of the environment in which the CU's circuits are utilised very worth while to minimise inconvenience of multi circuit failure on a SL board.

ATB J

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Why do you need to provide RCD protection to other circuits?

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Why do you need to provide RCD protection to other circuits?

I don't only those that would ordinarily fall under the regs if it were a new install.I am well aware that I am under no obligation to retrospectively upgrade an install ( Except of course main E's ) but I choose to call me ---- if you wish lol.
411.3.3..Ordinary persons
522.6.101/102 Cables in fabric of building
701.411.3.3 Special Locations

 

[nickblake]

save time if you want to update it install rcbo's less time consuming than trying to modify the board , me being picky an RCBO is a BSEN61009

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Nick yes I had realised I had quoted the wrong BSEN number but couldn't be arsed to change it, I don't quite understand your last part of the reply tho, what your suggesting is exactly what I was proposing, loop together the N bar new Bus bar and replace the BSEN 60898's and the old RCD with 61009's ?

ATB J

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I don't only those that would ordinarily fall under the regs if it were a new install.I am well aware that I am under no obligation to retrospectively upgrade an install ( Except of course main E's ) but I choose to call me ---- if you wish lol.
411.3.3..Ordinary persons
522.6.101/102 Cables in fabric of building
701.411.3.3 Special Locations

In your OP, you mention that these boards are at work.
Are these boards in domestic installations?
If you intend using RCBOs, why do you intend obtaining a new neutral bar?

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Mate if you have something to say just spit it out, It's simples, in my mind, I have many light commercial outlets where staff are useing lots of hand held equipment, (Ordinary Persons) I as an electrician want to afford them the best protection that current technology can provide, so those circuits on a CU not protected by RCD's I would like to protect, the CU's mainly are old 16th with maybe two circuits protected with a 30 Ma all others no RCD including many sockets used with hand held equipment, so whip the mcb's out, link together the split load N bar and rcbo the whole boards circuits, so please tell me why this seems so vexing ?

ATB J

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If the people using the hand held equipment are 'staff', then they are not 'ordinary' persons. 30mA RCD protection is not required as per 411.3.3.
If the installation is not domestic, then it will be under the control of a skilled or instructed person, 30mA RCD protection is not required as per 522.6.101.
30mA RCD protection is not an acceptable method of compliance with 522.6.102.
If there are any locations containing a bath or shower, then yes 30mA RCD protection is required for circuits of such locations.

If you intend installing RCBOs in place of non-RCD protected MCBs, you will not want to connect the two neutral bars together.

 

[AndyL]

If you intend installing RCBOs in place of non-RCD protected MCBs, you will not want to connect the two neutral bars together.

I think OP is saying he is adapting a split load board and removing the RCD, to use the whole board he will need to link the N bars and the bus bar

 

[brman]

Mate if you have something to say just spit it out, It's simples, in my mind, I have many light commercial outlets where staff are useing lots of hand held equipment, (Ordinary Persons) I as an electrician want to afford them the best protection that current technology can provide, so those circuits on a CU not protected by RCD's I would like to protect, the CU's mainly are old 16th with maybe two circuits protected with a 30 Ma all others no RCD including many sockets used with hand held equipment, so whip the mcb's out, link together the split load N bar and rcbo the whole boards circuits, so please tell me why this seems so vexing ?

ATB J

leaving aside which circuits actually need RCD protection, what I don't understand is why you are removing the existing RCDs? Why not leave those circuits alone and just RCBO the others that need it?
Of have I misunderstood what you are suggesting?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That's exactly what I was wondering?

 

[AndyL]

post #3 says RCDs fail test brman, i think that's why he's changing it

 

[brman]

post #3 says RCDs fail test brman, i think that's why he's changing it

ok. fair enough.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Whilst I appreciate the attempt at clarity over 'Skilled or instructed persons' I didn't feel the need to explain the circumstances of the environment ,as the I thought it was a fairly clear cut question, I wasn't asking if I need to rcbo the circuits just how to convert the board,but to clarify. as the person in charge of the electrical safety I have taken the veiw that the circumstances in which the installation are used are so similar to a Domestic or similar ( See OSG Green page 74 ) that the use of that exception to the regs would be innappropriate and difficult to defend in a court of law, the sockets are used by all manner of people other than staff, including the general public at times, also all equipment is not ''Authorised' ( Again see the same page of OSG ).

Point 2..I have also taken the view that although I have no obligation to retro a whole install, I as the one where the buck stops have also applied 522.6.101 9 (OSG Page 74 ) as I cannot know if the wiring embedded conforms to i) ii) iii) iv).

If I am redesigning a board, it's my choice, as designer to make decisions, and remember this very important fact, BS7671 is the MINIMUM standards we must apply, not the maximum, if I decide to make something 'Safer' than the regs need, do you think this makes me a bad person ? or just a diligent, professional that doesn't want someone to get wiped out ?

ATB J

 

[DurhamSparky]

Do it.... Nothing wrong with making any thing safer!!!