Discuss Cost of a 4kw solar system in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

S

Smidgen

Yes I know this is a how long is a piece of string question, and I may get shot down in flames but

is 5-6 k a realistic price for a 4kw system at the moment?
 
I wouldn't worry too much about price. If you're getting that price AND a good system/service then you're doing well. If you get that price and the installer cuts corners then you'll wish you chose more wisely.
 
Yes I am looking for a guide price really.

Could you tell me what you would ask to avoid getting someone who cuts corners?

I generally get a few quotes and see who I think will do the best job, who sounds like they take pride in their work, but its often difficult to tell. Had a double glazing disaster where the owner of the business was great, seemed competent ,enthusiastic, a genuine type and in the event was; but the window fitter who also turned out to be the surveyor once the deposit was paid,was a disaster. After the windows were installed really badly I discovered the word "sub contractor". Which is something I must be aware of this time I guess. The owner did put most things right but there must have been about 15 return visits.

So if 5-6k is realistic what sort of deposit should I be prepared to pay, someone wants 2/3rds up front which has put me off him completely, although he was my front runner til then.
 
You're only allowed to ask for 25% upfront under RECC guidelines. Anyone asking for 66% is potentially having financial problems perhaps as a result of cheap as chips prices.
 
You're only allowed to ask for 25% upfront under RECC guidelines. Anyone asking for 66% is potentially having financial problems perhaps as a result of cheap as chips prices.

Thank you, both comments are helpful. He wasnt the cheapest, but up til then I thought he was the best. I will possibly have to start over.
 
Thank you, both comments are helpful. He wasnt the cheapest, but up til then I thought he was the best. I will possibly have to start over.

You would do well to post the town / city you live in and invite a couple of nearby installers who post regularly on this forum to give you a price. There are some knowledgeable people here.
 
According to RECC you are allowed to take 60% as advanced payments in accordane with RECC guidelines.

No more than 25% as deposit

We have done this in the past, and has no reflection on our financial stability :)

Of course those sums must be placed in escrow based Client accounts AND protected by insurance.

6.3 Deposits and further advance payments

If a member requires the consumer to pay a deposit when the contract is signed, this will constitute a reasonable percentage of the estimated overall costs of the work as set out in the contract, for example 15 per cent. It should not exceed 25 per cent under any circumstances. Members may only use this money for work under the contract, for example for purchasing goods. Members will repay it promptly if the contract is cancelled in line with the conditions set out in section 6.2 of this Code. This is a very important requirement of the Code.


If the member subsequently requires a further advance payment to be made by the consumer, this must constitute a reasonable percentage of the overall costs of the work and will only be used for work under the contract, for example for purchasing goods. Under no circumstances can the deposit and the further advance payment, taken together, exceed 60 per cent of the estimated overall costs of the work. Members can only require a further advance payment no more than three weeks before the agreed delivery date of all the goods to be installed. Members will set out clearly in the contract the amount and timing of all payments required.


Members must protect any deposit and any further advance payment, such that, if they should fall into receivership, administration or bankruptcy before the contract has been completed, the consumer will be able to have his or her contract completed at no additional cost by another Code member.

Members can place such funds in a 'client' or other third party account or use the protected payment scheme which the Code administrator has arranged for members. The Code administrator has prepared guidance on third party accounts here. Such funds must be separate from those accounts linked to the member's own credit and banking facilities and should only be used with the consumer's consent. (This can be obtained in advance when the consumer signs the contract.)

In addition, any deposits and advance payments must be insured. For this purpose, the Code administrator arranged an insurance scheme with Quality Assured National Warranties (QANW) in November 2010. In February 2012 this became part of the Deposit and Workmanship Warranty Insurance (DAWWI) Scheme. Members who take deposits and advance payments, and who cannot demonstrate that they have equivalent cover in place should take part in the Scheme. (See also section 8.1 below.) Members must inform consumers accurately about the arrangements they have in place to comply with this section of the Code.
Where a member uses a consumer's money, paid in advance, to purchase goods, and where those goods are delivered to the member, the member will hold the goods on trust for the consumer and will keep them separate from its own goods and those of third parties. The member will keep such goods properly stored, protected, insured and identified as the consumer's property. The consumer should be able to inspect or repossess the goods at any time. The legal title to those goods, or the proportion of them that has already been paid for, should pass directly to the consumer. In this way, if the member falls into receivership, administration or bankruptcy before the installation takes place, the goods will remain the consumer's property.

So someone asking for 2/3 is breaking the codes by which they MUST work, 60% subject to the above is OK. (25% deposit + 35% no more than three weeks before the agreed installation date.)
 
someone wants 2/3rds up front which has put me off him completely, although he was my front runner til then.

Sounds like a business that's lacking working capital - how long will it be before the business decides to close (or goes into administration)? How will your warranty claim or after-sales support be affected if the business isn't trading in a year or two?
Probably your money will be needed to buy most or all of the kit, with the remaining balance around £1.5k being to cover labour charges and back-office paperwork, certification, profit margin etc.
 
You would do well to post the town / city you live in and invite a couple of nearby installers who post regularly on this forum to give you a price. There are some knowledgeable people here.

OK Will do. TBH I had thought of it but had presumed it was against the rules. Will start a new thread.

I also wondered whether there are any feedback sites you would recommend? I have found a couple googling but most businesses seem to have 1 recommendation written by themselves or their immediate family.
 
Maybe just me then - on a 4kwp system I can't see why anyone would need to take 60% deposit. If you're worried about payment pay for a credit check on customer and include it in the price. It's a different kettle of fish with bigger systems.

IMHO this is what's killing the pv business for installers who want to maintain a sustainable business. We went to a cheap as chips install last week where 6 months after installation there were leaks in the roof & when the roofer got on the roof to sort it out (the installation company were nowhere to be found) 2 of the panels weren't even connected. Not so cheap for the installation now. You get what you pay for.
 
Re the other posts. Thank you.It does sound like my chap is working within the rules, he's asked for 15% on ordering, 35% 2 weeks prior to install, rest on completion. But I thought that a bit high and yes I dont think its building trust in the industry
 
Re the other posts. Thank you.It does sound like my chap is working within the rules, he's asked for 15% on ordering, 35% 2 weeks prior to install, rest on completion. But I thought that a bit high and yes I dont think its building trust in the industry
for reference, we ask for 10% initial deposit, 50% invoiced 21 days in advance of the installation, payable before 7 days of the installation, then 40% due upon completion of the work and receipt of the MCS certificate and paperwork.

The reasons for this are twofold

1 - This massively reduces our risk level as a company, as it prevents us ending up in a situation where a customer has the full installation, and ends up dragging out payment for months, or deciding to cancel the installation after we've bought the equipment. This in turn allows us to reduce the profit margins that would otherwise be needed to cover that level of increased risk, and pass those savings on to our customers. To put this another way, why on earth would any customer that we've had no previous dealings with think that we should be installing £6,000 worth of equipment on their house without any up front payment - you'd not expect to be able to have £6,000 worth of shopping delivered from tesco on account (unless you'd built up a long trading history with them / were paying high interest rates on that credit), so why would you expect a solar company to instantly grant you that level of credit facility?

2 - Yes, it is to do with cash flow. In a busy month we can turnover £250,000 of stock, in a quiet month maybe just £30k. Any business that has £200k lying around in the bank to cover their busy months is doing something wrong in my opinion, that's dead money. If they don't, and they don't take deposits, then their ability to cover the costs of your equipment in the busy months could well rely on the speed with which other customers make their payments. Get 2-3 customers in a row paying by cheque, and they could well struggle to actually pay for your kit on time if their credit limit at the supply is maxed out. We don't have that problem, even though the 60% doesn't actually even cover the costs of the kit, 60% from every customer gives us a sufficient financial buffer to mean that we can always pay for the kit on time, and at busy periods can order in the kit weeks in advance to ensure that our customers don't end up losing out when the suppliers run out of panels.

In the november 2011 rush period we were able to place orders for around £350k of stock inside the first 14 days of the announcement, including probably £200k inside a 2-3 day period, which covered us for a massive ramp up in orders for that 6 week period purely on the basis that we were taking deposits from customers as soon as we were allowed under the REAL rules. There's a hell of a lot of companies out there who had to let a lot of customers down in that period because they simply couldn't get the stock because they hadn't taken deposits and didn't have the cash or credit available to buy the stock early enough - we didn't let a single customer down.

So no, I don't see it as being a sign of anything other than a sensible policy to absolutely minimise the potential for anything to go wrong with the ordering process in advance of any installations.

I hope this gives you a bit of an insight into the likely rationale behind the company wanting to take that level of up front deposit.
 
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Some forum members have approached me and may be quoting. I dont think it would be sensible to start posting that as it might put them off. Also no-one has been to site. Sorry if that seems coy, but from what is being talk about elsewhere on the forum I dont think its poor quality kit if that is what you are thinking.
 

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