Dangerous electrical supply cable

[andybenw]

Hi , I'm new here so please be gentle.

I am the owner of a ground floor flat in a converted block of 3. The meters for all 3 flats are located in my cellar. The issue I have is that the main 3 phase lead sheathed supply cable spans across my cellar on a flimsy piece of wood. Above it is the bathroom. Recently discovered was wet rot in the joists underneath. It is entirely possible that my bath coiuld have came through the floor and rutured the cable. Its also entirely possible that if a child got down my cellar they could swing on it etc.

Do I have a case to get the cable and meters moved for free. I ask as if I was required to pay I 'm sure the other 2 flats would baulk at their share of the cost.

I have attached a pic of the cable. DNO is SSE. Thanks in advance for any answers, Andy.

 

[Spoon]

The best thing is for you to ring them and argue your case. Not very good advice but they may see like I do: It seems more a case of you just want the cable shifting to make more space. This "flimsy piece of wood" looks the same size as the flimsy piece of wood holding up your roof. If is is really a safety issue than give them a ring and tell them about it.

 

[andybenw]

Hi. Yes I had already rung them before posting. It is like pulling teeth talking to them, hence asking for advice. The piece of wood looks a lot stronger in the photo than it actually is. I had a chippy round tonight who has refused to work in the area. Basically he would be pulling down joists and waving saws around this 3 phase unfused supply and to be honest I think I would refuse the work if I was him. Round 4 with SSPD tomorrow to see if they will sort it out. To be honest I'm not bothered whether they move the meters, as long as they re-route the cable. Russian bath roulette on acrows is not fun. I am checking them every day, but it would be so easy to get blase. Would I perhaps be better forgetting the normal route and phoning their emergency number? Does anyone have experience of dealing with SSPD?

 

[robsparky1975]

You need to ask for the head of department,I have had recent dealings over here and was liasing with contracts manager,its there supply cable so they have a duty to maintain it,if it was originally installed poorly would you have a case for them to move it for free? id certainly have a go if i were you on those grounds otherwise they will charge there normal rates,they charge what they want unfortunatly.

 

[andybenw]

Cheers folks for replies so far. Had a meeting with other co-freeholders at weekend and they are not willing to pay, so guess I've got to push it with DNO to get cable moved. I had someone from the depot round the other day, not much good as he kept talking about what 'they' will say. After further harranging with customer services they are now sending a 'Performance Director' round who is purported to be of a level capable of making decisions. So hopefully I should have an answer soon one way or another. As it stands I don't see how anyone could possibly sign off agaist a risk assessment for something like this so I will go down that direction when this guy arrives. Anyone know if these Performance Directors can actually make decisions?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Cheers folks for replies so far. Had a meeting with other co-freeholders at weekend and they are not willing to pay, so guess I've got to push it with DNO to get cable moved. I had someone from the depot round the other day, not much good as he kept talking about what 'they' will say. After further harranging with customer services they are now sending a 'Performance Director' round who is purported to be of a level capable of making decisions. So hopefully I should have an answer soon one way or another. As it stands I don't see how anyone could possibly sign off agaist a risk assessment for something like this so I will go down that direction when this guy arrives. Anyone know if these Performance Directors can actually make decisions?

I dont see why you want it moved,all it needs is the rot sorted...(not the DNO's responsibility that you have not maintained the structure of your property)...and the cable secured properly to a sound surface.

 

[DNS1]

Cable should be properly secured, but that's all they need to do IMO.

If you want it moving, try asking them to do it in lieu of rent for the space it takes up in your cellar!

I know it's worked for farmers who have pylons on their land (although admittedly this is a somewhat smaller scale!)

 

[andybenw]

3 phase supply cable change.

Hi. I live in a house that has been converted into 3 flats. We are supplied by a 3 phase supply with each flat taking a phase from the supply. The supply is in the cellar. The 2 upper flats supplies are connected with meters in cellar, switch fuses and 16mm twin and earth to their consumer units which are situated in their flats. We are going to get DNO to re-route the supply as it is in a dangerous situation. There are 2 options, either route new cable to outside walls, or reroute new cable to existing meter position. As it's my cellar I am keen to go the outside route, however the other flats will obviously argue for a re-route negating the need for new wiring. I have a couple of questions.

1. As the supply cable will in effect be changed does this mean we have to treat all flats as new installations and bring up to current 7671 standards. I expect with a newly jointed supply cable it will have to be treated as Ze may have changed and continue from there.

2. The 16mm twin and earth supplies will I believe have a 6mm cpc. Will this be sufficient.

3. The 16mm twin and earth supplies are not protected by RCD. The cables run through the fabric of the building and there is no guarantee they are buried more than 50mm. Do they need replacing by SWA or can they be retrofitted with RCD protection.

Andy

 

[Octopus]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

You need a competent spark or 2 to come and review this with you....

 

[andybenw]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

Hi. I will not be doing any work myself. Just trying to get some info for the inevitable argument with the other flats.

 

[Rockingit]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

As said by Murdoch, if you want to have any weight to your argument then it needs to be based on the opinion of people who are skilled and qualified at what they do. Call a couple of competent Sparks in to do a survey for you and cost it out.

BTW, why are the DNO moving the intake to start with? What is making it a dangerous location?

 

[andybenw]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

Hi. Sorry, but I am just asking for advice. I think it's pretty clear cut what I am asking. Yes a qualified sparky will be completing works. I'm just asking for advice to help me argue with other flats and to prevent me getting ripped off by any cowbows if I am unlucky to choose one.

Advice anyone??

 

[Richard Burns]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

If only the supply cable is being changed there is no requirement to upgrade any of the rest of the installation but it must be safe for re-connection.

As recommended someone on site needs to be able to assess the situation and advise accordingly, if you try several people you can come back and ask which is right if you get differing opinions, but we may not be able to differentiate from a distance.

 

[londonlec]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

Near me UKPN would want a satisfactory EICR before they will energise.
But I don't think this property would be in their area

 

[andybenw]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

Cheers guys.
Sounds like I will have to argue my point from the view that to run to existing point will require excavating next to drains and uprooting my kitchen.

Am I right in assuming that if the top flats want anything changing to their installation in future the earth to their consumer unit will need to be upgraded from 6mm to 10mm??

 

[snowhead]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

What's changed to now make the supply cable dangerous?

Have you enquired or checked the website about the costs involved with the DNO?

You'll probably find that as it's the DNO cable, they will be telling you where they want to put it, your options there will be limited or nil.

 

[Rockingit]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

Cheers guys.
Sounds like I will have to argue my point from the view that to run to existing point will require excavating next to drains and uprooting my kitchen.

Am I right in assuming that if the top flats want anything changing to their installation in future the earth to their consumer unit will need to be upgraded from 6mm to 10mm??

No, you're not. Maybe, is the answer. Only a competent electrician can calculate that. TBH, you've given us no information whatsoever other than the fact that you seem to be a stirrer with your neighbours. WHY does the intake need moving? Who has said it does? Or is it just that you want to modify your cellar for something? (Suggest you check your deeds for wayleave in which case - you may not have a leg to stand on). If the DNO have said that they need to move their equipment, then it is up to them to put right anything else involved and cover any reasonable costs in doing so.

Stop trying to be clever - because we can see straight through it. Do you have even the vaguest idea of the combined knowledge present on this site???!

 

[andybenw]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

Hi, the cable itself is not dangerous but is dangerously situated spanning a cellar room undwr a bathroom where timbers have rotted. I have had a visit fr them and they have explained the two options available.

Question for RichardBurns. If we move meters outside and then add additional twin and earth to link, would this be considered a new installation, or a new supply to existing??

 

[Rockingit]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

Hi, the cable itself is not dangerous but is dangerously situated spanning a cellar room undwr a bathroom where timbers have rotted. I have had a visit fr them and they have explained the two options available.

Question for RichardBurns. If we move meters outside and then add additional twin and earth to link, would this be considered a new installation, or a new supply to existing??

Sounds more like you need a builder to come and sort the joists out, tbh.

 

[andybenw]

Re: 3 phase supply cable change.

Hi, have already had a chippy round and he refuses to work around the cable. He will basically be pulling joists down from above it so I can see his point.

I am not a stirrer with the other flats. They are in agreement with me that the cable needs moved. DNO are also in agreement, it's just that they don't regard the cable itself as dangerous.

Obviously just re-routing would be slightly cheaper, but it would end up digging close to drains and I would have to rip out my kitchen. As the work is going to cost a substantial amount I think we might as well move the top flats meters out of the cellar into an accessible position for them saving me the hassle of having to grant them access.