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Discuss Dangerous work - how to report in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

mattg4321

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Arms
Esteemed
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I suspect I know the answer to this already, but...

For some reason, recently I've been getting increasingly ****** off by being undercut by chancers, billy big s*** 'multi trade' friends of friends of friends bending my ear at social events and putting right work by the above only for the customer to say they don't want the hassle of even complaining to said cowboy etc.

Example 1:

Recently I went to a bar recently opened by an acquaintance. It's obviously a public space with many people coming in daily - including children.

Had the misfortune to chat to the 'multi trade' cowboy who carried out all the work. He was giving it the large one, thinks he knows it all etc. We all know the type. He's not an electrician and has no relevant qualifications. He carried out all the electrical work there. I also found out from this chat he has no test equipment.

It didn't take me long to spot a few problems, without even having to really look. Steel conduit and singles used to fit some usb sockets for customer use. All the conduit was poorly installed - no connection to earth. None of it bushed onto sockets etc - just butted up to a rubber grommet fitted in the knockout. Some of them the singles were visible inside. Basic insulation visible in numerous light points I could see. Appeared not to be any RCD protection assuming the CU I spotted was the only one. Live cables hanging (around 6'6" high) in toilet for unfinished lighting/fans. Just had wago's on the end of conductors - sheathing stripped right back.

This all without even really looking and getting any test equipment out.

I really wouldn't mind causing this chancer a few problems as these people wind me up but the bigger question for me is how would I feel if some poor person/kid got a belt and was injured or worse, and I knew of the problem.

Clearly this guy isn't part of a scheme. I know that if this was a private dwelling then all I can do is inform the owner, but surely in a public place there must be something more that could be done. Who should/could this be reported to?

I suspect no one, as there isn't any money to be made out of it.

I might write example 2 later, if I haven't cut my wrists by then! :D
 
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Gavin John Hyde

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Arms
Esteemed
If it is a public accessible place and a licensed bar then i would get building control and the council on to it, they will take a dim view of this, yes it will cause the bar owner some money putting it right but the chancer who did the work will likely get a stern telling off too. our local council actually got a injuction stopping one cowboy doing electric work as he was damn right dangerous and was fitting consumer units for cash no paperwork.
 

Midwest

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Arms
Esteemed
Not sure HSE would get involved. Read on this forum quite a few times, they only ever get involved, if someone is injured.
If you do report to them, be interested if this is true or not.
 
Sounds like a bog standard installation we probably see 20+ times a year..

No one and I mean no one will show any interest until after someone is seriously injured or killed

Just the way it is nowadays
 

Strima

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Arms
Esteemed
Contact the local authority licensing department, they'll pull the bars license until things have been made safe.
 
S

Squid

Tell your "acquaintance" about the issues and tell him you are just mentioning it out of concern for the public and themselves, remind him that only a week or two ago a child was electrocuted and killed in a pub.
 
The work is out of scope for HSE but within the scope of the LA for enforcement.
It would be nigh on impossible to Prosecute the cowboy who did the work until and unless there were injuries I which case police-based criminal charges would be levelled.
What the LA can, and will probably seriously consider if they get involved is a prosecution of your acquaintance for key breaches of the CDM Regs, which in turn will invoke the EAWR.
If I were enforcing that area of law I would Prosecute him without a second's thought, and ask for exemplary fines to set an example. Fines are now based on the turnover of a business and are unlimited. Offences created through engaging non-competent contractors go down at a Magistrates Court like a pork pie at a Bar Mitzvah.


From the HSE website,

When do a commercial client’s duties start and finish?
A commercial client’s duties begin from the very start of a project, ie as soon as there has been a decision to go ahead with the project and early planning and design work begins. A client’s duties continue to the end of a project and beyond. The commercial client will continue to have responsibility for health and safety issues that arise from the maintenance and use of the building after construction work is finished. This responsibility continues until the client disposes of their interest in the building.
I would advise him to shut up shop immediately and get the work completed properly, especially as at this point his Insurers will walk away from any liability - meaning he is also not now insured, and in breach of insurance requirements. Given it is a bar, and the type of customer, there is a high risk of danger and now that fines are no longer maximised but based on turnover, and everyone is short of money, H&S is now being seen more and more as a money earner.
Believe me that your acquaintance is in very deep sh*t.

 
The work is out of scope for HSE but within the scope of the LA for enforcement.
It would be nigh on impossible to Prosecute the cowboy who did the work until and unless there were injuries in which case police-based criminal charges would be levelled.
What the LA can, and will probably seriously consider if they get involved is a prosecution of your acquaintance for key breaches of the CDM Regs, which in turn will invoke the EAWR.
If I were enforcing the law I would Prosecute him without a second's thought, and ask for exemplary fines to set an example. Fines are now based on the turnover of a business and are unlimited. Offences created through engaging non-competent contractors go down at a Magistrates Court like a pork pie at a Bar Mitzvah.


From the HSE website,

When do a commercial client’s duties start and finish?
A commercial client’s duties begin from the very start of a project, ie as soon as there has been a decision to go ahead with the project and early planning and design work begins. A client’s duties continue to the end of a project and beyond. The commercial client will continue to have responsibility for health and safety issues that arise from the maintenance and use of the building after construction work is finished. This responsibility continues until the client disposes of their interest in the building.
I would advise him to shut up shop immediately and get the work completed properly, especially as at this point his Insurers will walk away from any liability - meaning he is also not now insured, and in breach of insurance requirements. Given it is a bar, and the type of customer, there is a high risk of danger and now that fines are no longer maximised but based on turnover, and everyone is short of money, H&S is now being seen more and more as a money earner.
Believe me that your acquaintance is in very deep sh*t.
 

FatAlan

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Trainee
Have a word with the acquaintance that owns the bar. Raise your concerns with them about the dangers and the fact that insurances will be invalidated etc.
 
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