UK Data Cables Running in ACO Drain

[slim_j]

Hi, I am a surveyor and we are currently managing some refurb works on a property.

This property has an old Clipsal lighting system and a wired network installed in the past. This isn’t specifically electrical, so I don’t know if I am allowed data questions in here. I am sure there is plenty of experience that might help and more so than a data only forum.

Part of this system has data cables running in an ACO Drain around the front of the building. These cables are in a black uPVC trunking which is not joined properly. The cables (I think cat 5) are standard indoor and so are not for outdoor use and I do not want them in an ACO as they are likely to perish quickly. I should add the client is renting this property so it needs to last without major disruption.

I want to move the cables out of the ACO and fix them at low level onto the brickwork and I have a number of conversations with electricians and data companies and nobody can agree on the best way forward.

As far as I see there are 3 options…


Option 1 – Leave in Place

It has been suggested I just leave them but I do not want to do this as it think it bad practice and with significant downpours they will affectively be sat in water.


Option 2 – Cut and Feed through Trunking

This option will involve cutting the cables where they leave the building, taking them to the where they re-enter the building. Fix a new outdoor conduit/ducting to the wall and pull them back though until they re-enter the building where they can be re-joined.

My issue with this option is risk. The cables are taking data a fairly long way and any connections will limit data flow. There is also the risk that something might not work afterwards and no contractors seem keen to take the risk which will mean expense.


Option 3 – Move without cutting and sheath in something

This option would be the most ideal and the cables would not need to be cut and there ‘should’ be enough give to fix around the building and out of the ACO.

The issue is what we sheath them in. With no ‘end’ they would not be able to be fed through any ducting. There is no outdoor use ‘wrap’ style trunking so I do not even know if this will be an option.

The only thing I can think is use an indoor cable tidy style wrap trunking and then wrap this in a Maveek Waterproof Repair Insulation Tape or similar to give it a chance. I appreciate not ideal but better than sitting in an ACO.


Appreciate any advice anyone can provide on this. It has been hurting my head over Xmas.

 

[Marvo]

Are the data cables for the lighting system ie are they solely for the purpose of controlling the lighting?

 

[slim_j]

So far nobody can guarantee either way. There are about 15 cables. The house is set up with 2 separate Clipsal lighting systems - one is on one side of the house and one on the other.

I personally do not think these are part of the lighting system as the systems are independant. There is a data port near the Clipsal lighting system, so I think a data feed is taken to this and then out to a number of LAN ports but I do think the cables (certainly the majority) in the ACO are part of lighting system.

 

[DPG]

If they are only renting the property, and there have been no issues so far, I would be tempted to leave them where they are.

Is there no way you can get to one end of the cables?

 

[slim_j]

If they are only renting the property, and there have been no issues so far, I would be tempted to leave them where they are.

Is there no way you can get to one end of the cables?

There is no way we can get to either end where they are already cut. The house is quite big and they feed from a very central control room through a few rooms before they leave the building and go into the ACO. They then re-enter the building in 2no. locations.

Leaving them has been suggested but we need to undertake works to the ACO (someone decided not to connect it to any outflows at all!!). This will mean they need moving temporarily anyway and I just think the plastic covering will be hammered by the elements will it not?

Am I right in thinking that sunlight would be worse than sitting in water in a dark ACO?

 

[DPG]

There is no way we can get to either end where they are already cut. The house is quite big and they feed from a very central control room through a few rooms before they leave the building and go into the ACO. They then re-enter the building in 2no. locations.

Leaving them has been suggested but we need to undertake works to the ACO (someone decided not to connect it to any outflows at all!!). This will mean they need moving temporarily anyway and I just think the plastic covering will be hammered by the elements will it not?

Am I right in thinking that sunlight would be worse than sitting in water in a dark ACO?

Sounds like they've had some dodgy contractors doing work there in the past!

 

[Marvo]

Yes, there's a good chance that older CAT5 cable won't be UV stable but in the UK I'd guess it would be a few years before significant sun damage occurred.

I don't see any quick fixes where you won't be throwing good money after bad so I'd probably either leave things as they are or go the whole hog and completely replace all the cables with CAT6 and re-run them better routes. Depends on many different things including available budget and how 'mission critical' they are but I'd assume in a domestic environment it's not going to cost thousands per day in downtime if a network goes faulty.

Just some food for thought, if all the cables are for the old lighting system then the bandwidth requirement is probably very low so they could be cut and rejointed without issues. Obviously if some of the cables are for hardwired gigabit ethernet then performance might be an issue if joints are added.

 

[slim_j]

Thanks for the reply and suggestions Marvo. I think I might end up leaving them. There seems more risk in messing something up now, than recitfying a defect in the future.
[automerge]1578476583[/automerge]

Sounds like they've had some dodgy contractors doing work there in the past!

It was shocking. 5 no. extractors in ceiling on flexi ducts running into an unvented roof void... loads of decent kictchen floor tiles laid on blobs of silicone because they presumibly ran out of grout.... plenty more!

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Any good data contractor should be able to determine the required performance for the application, current level of performance, physical length, number of existing terminations and faults in each run etc using a cable analyser. This might suggest a way forward. A run of say Cat5e cable significantly less than 100m long, that has not got too many through-connections already, could probably have the offending section replaced with exterior grade Cat7 (or normal Cat7 in suitable conduit) without any issues arising from the two extra connections where it meets the existing indoor sections at each end if they are done properly.

It may be that water is already penetrating the sheath of the cable and getting amongst the twisted pairs, which can degrade performance. The user might not be aware of this: If a cable is being used at the moment on 100BaseT they might be happy, unaware that it is completely unable to work at gigabit speeds because the blue pair is severed and the cable full of water, and in a few months it might stop working at 100G too. OTOH if is is being used for lighting serial, wet string would be fine.

 

[davesparks]

A run of say Cat5e cable significantly less than 100m long, that has not got too many through-connections already, could probably have the offending section replaced with exterior grade Cat7 (or normal Cat7 in suitable conduit) without any issues arising from the two extra connections where it meets the existing indoor sections at each end if they are done properly.

You've confused me now, why cat 7? Wouldn't extending it with external cat 5e do the job?