UK dispute over unexplained "extra work" charge

[Antoniak]

Hi, hoping to seek advice from this forum re a potential dispute between me as private individual homeowner and my electrician. We agreed a £45+VAT charge per point system for a total refub of a 2 bed flat London. I have the points/work list fully itimised and that has been verified by the electrician, including amendments, small changes such as cables run but not connected etc.

The dispute is that following this itimised list there is a mysterious extra charge of £700 + VAT for "extra work".

I asked what this extra work was and if he could itimise and explain it. In reply I received a somewhat angry but vague reply, stating something that he helped install our kitchen and bathroom (he didn't have any part in that work) and moving the location of one or two sockets. I don't think moving a socket by a few inches can justify a charge of £840.

Anyway we still haven't got our build control completion certificates, the job was finished in mid Feb so way over 30 days ago. My final email tonight was that if he cannot reasonably explain or itimise what these extra charges were for we could not pay them. Therefore I think he will withhold certification, so I've asked him what CPS scheme he is with in prepartion for a dispute.

But if anyone could provide some advice, what would my next step be? Surely I can't just pay him £840 in the blind, without knowing what this charge is for?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Did you sign a contract for the work?

 

[Antoniak]

Did you sign a contract for the work?

Hi, so no contract was signed. We had used the same electic on a couple of previous projects so felt had a good working relationship by that point, this project wasn't that big, so we just had a verbal agreements of £45+VAT per point, that's all I have. I'm guessing a written contract would have been better way to go?

 

[Baddegg]

Written contract is always best, not sure he can withhold certification as it needs notifying in I believe 21 days, (present circumstances permitting obviously) I would say though that £700 is a lot of extras and should be easy to quantify and agree from both sides,

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Hi, so no contract was signed. We had used the same electic on a couple of previous projects so felt had a good working relationship by that point, this project wasn't that big, so we just had a verbal agreements of £45+VAT per point, that's all I have. I'm guessing a written contract would have been better way to go?

There are nearly always extra costs involved with a re-wire. The last rewire I did had a quoted price of around £4000 and there were approx £600 additional costs. However, In my initial quote I had specifically said that there would be additional costs for any additional work or if there were any unforeseen complications. In addition, I would speak to the customer at the time of the extra work (or complication) and let them know this is extra to the quote. At the end of the job I would itemise the extra work and give one figure for the extra cost.

I think you are completely in your rights to ask for the additional work to be itemised and the electrician should give you that without grumbling (although he can grumble privately to himself as I would). You should be receiving an Electrical installation certificate from the electrician himself and also an email or letter from his registration body saying the work has been notified. These should not be withheld although it's tempting if a customer doesn't pay.

He should be registered with a scheme (NICEIC, Napit, Stroma etc) and you can check to see if they are with this link as long as you put in the correct details Competent Persons Register | Home - https://www.competentperson.co.uk/

lastly, remain polite and ask for his complaints procedure and follow it. All registered electricians have to have a complaints procedure.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I going to say this ones ,you can reg the work with in the time period ,but how ever do not need to hand over the test certs if their is dispute .I have had this before regarding taking
some one to court over moneys .

 

[Antoniak]

There are nearly always extra costs involved with a re-wire. The last rewire I did had a quoted price of around £4000 and there were approx £600 additional costs. However, In my initial quote I had specifically said that there would be additional costs for any additional work or if there were any unforeseen complications. In addition, I would speak to the customer at the time of the extra work (or complication) and let them know this is extra to the quote. At the end of the job I would itemise the extra work and give one figure for the extra cost.

I think you are completely in your rights to ask for the additional work to be itemised and the electrician should give you that without grumbling (although he can grumble privately to himself as I would). You should be receiving an Electrical installation certificate from the electrician himself and also an email or letter from his registration body saying the work has been notified. These should not be withheld although it's tempting if a customer doesn't pay.

He should be registered with a scheme (NICEIC, Napit, Stroma etc) and you can check to see if they are with this link as long as you put in the correct details Competent Persons Register | Home - https://www.competentperson.co.uk/

lastly, remain polite and ask for his complaints procedure and follow it. All registered electricians have to have a complaints procedure.

Hi thanks for the advice. I am still waiting for him to clarify the extra work item.

I notice that checking this site: NICEIC Online Certification - https://www.checkmynotification.com/ as he is with NICEIC, that the work has still not been notified even though it was completed 2 months ago.

Is he in his rights not to notify while we dispute this final balance payment (total job value was £9500, we are withholding £600, the rest has been paid). I've read we might be liable for a £5000 fine becuase this work hasn't been notified in the prescribed time?

 

[Baddegg]

His job to notify mate not yours assuming that’s what you agreed, you can do it yourself through building control, this is why you need written contracts especially for that amount of money, no one will truly know what was agreed.....

 

[radiohead]

Hi thanks for the advice. I am still waiting for him to clarify the extra work item.

I notice that checking this site: NICEIC Online Certification - https://www.checkmynotification.com/ as he is with NICEIC, that the work has still not been notified even though it was completed 2 months ago.

Is he in his rights not to notify while we dispute this final balance payment (total job value was £9500, we are withholding £600, the rest has been paid). I've read we might be liable for a £5000 fine becuase this work hasn't been notified in the prescribed time?

If he has not yet issued completion certificates (EIC's) then the job is not deemed complete. Notification timescale will be from the date on the EIC.

 

[Mike Johnson]

At the moment you are in default if an invoice has been sent to you and you have refused to pay, notwithstanding the dispute, I would suggest multiplying the points as agreed by the £45.00 as also agreed and pay that with a written request for the completion certificate, the onus is then back on the electrician to prove that they are owed extra monies.

 

[David Prosser]

At the moment you are in default if an invoice has been sent to you and you have refused to pay, notwithstanding the dispute, I would suggest multiplying the points as agreed by the £45.00 as also agreed and pay that with a written request for the completion certificate, the onus is then back on the electrician to prove that they are owed extra monies.

The OP has stated they have already paid all but the "extra £600".

 

[Baddegg]

Agree not really in default for anything, op do you have a reciept/receipts for any monies paid already?

 

[buzzlightyear]

If you have made a gentleman agree at the time of the work carried out, but how ever with out contract you up a Greek with out a paddle, so the sockets per point you agreed
Extras you will have to pay for, but the spark will either take you to court to dispute that work, me talking has a breef. so pay him what you owe him. and fight it out with judge rider. Lol.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The OP has stated they have already paid all but the "extra £600".

The OP said he had withheld £600.00 the extra was for £700.00 + VAT, so in effect he is in credit, until such time as the electrician can prove that the extra work was carried out.

Put everything in writing, especially your request for the completion certificate, this is all documentation that would be needed if it ever goes to court.

 

[buzzlightyear]

The dispute is that following this itimised list there is a mysterious extra charge of £700 + VAT for "extra work".

we are withholding £600, the rest has been paid). I've read we might

this post is not making any sense.

 

[Antoniak]

this post is not making any sense.

Made a mistake. the extra work was for £600 not £700.

However decided want to draw a line under this and move one, I have emailed him again to say we will agree pay this £600 (he is claiming the extra work is now call out charges etc), on condition he provides us the certificates. Hope he accepts that offer.

 

[snowhead]

I'd suggest using someone else next time, preferably with a written agreement on costs and scope.
If he can't decide what the extra cost is really for then he can't be trusted in the future.

 

[buzzlightyear]

The extra cost a call out charges , so how come you did not mention this in the post in the beginning.

 

[davesparks]

How can thete be callout charges on a £9.5k job?

 

[Antoniak]

The extra cost a call out charges , so how come you did not mention this in the post in the beginning.

Because when i first posted, I didn't know about them. Originally I was presented with an unitemised charge of £600 for "Extra Work".

On further discussion with electric, he has now explained most of this amount is for call out charges, so now I know.